LOL this argument will NEVER end. It never does we just have to relax and laugh!!!

A Supercharger is going to turn the compressor wheel as fast as you gear the thing. But it DOES take power to turn it. I have ALWAYS understood that it DOES take more engine power to turn the SuperCharger than a turbo does driven by a Turbo.

Turbo's seem to be effected by exhaust piping though. WHen the cat and pipe blows off of the 319 we installed it spools 2 PSI higher instantly!!!





I would still like to get a link to a picture(s) of a SUPER CHARGER bolted to a Rhino. Just so I can say "That's how they did it" [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

 

It doesnt matter how many rpm's it turns, its how much AIR it moves!

Another fact, the highest hp race engines in the world run blowers! TOP FUEL

Also turbo's will build alot more heat!

Some types of race cars use tubos over blowers because they can build tractible HP

Anyway I would like to see a video of the rhino

 

top fuel cars use blowers in conjuntion with alcohol fuel and exetremely high compression pistons, where as street cars and any other car made to run more than a quarter mile without a rebuild uses blowers and turbos in conjuntion with pump gas and very low compression pistons. huge difference.

and since i was thinking about it, a quad is not going to push a blower very hard, and thier prolly not going to push a turbo that hard either.

 

The debate was WHAT makes more hp.

BLOWER!
otherwise top fuel cars would run turbos.

Im not saying turbos are bad, they just have drawbacks, for the way I would like to build hp. I want instant response!! And thats what blowers do best.

 

I go to the races all of the time.

Someone once explained to me WHY they don't use Turbo's on TOP Fuel but I forget what it was. But it WASN'T because Blowers made MORE power than a Turbo.




My ATV isn't even tuned correctly, and it builds boost really quickly. I saw 8 PSI with the stupid pull through on the stock carb.


Here's pictures of my Turbo for the size comparison. I wish this forum allowed pics to be posted within the message [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]


Turbo in comparison to a TWO LITER soda


Turbo in comparison to a quarter


Turbo on the Warrior



Imagine how fast it would spool on a 660 cc engine!

 

The main reason is NHRA outlawed them years ago.
A second reason is that when thousands of a second count the turbo just can't come on soon enought in a 4 1/2 second race. They will build way more total power though.

For those that like to sit and read about these things here is a great article
Superchargers

For those that don't; here is a little sample from the article.

"Positive displacement superchargers may absorb as much as a third of the total crankshaft power of the engine, and in many applications are less efficient than turbochargers. In applications where engine response and power is more important than any other consideration, such as top-fuel dragsters and vehicles used in tractor pulling competitions, positive displacement superchargers are extremely common. "

Now; like I said in the past; centrifugal superchagers are a little more efficient than a positive displacement supercharger but still it won't beat a turbo for the most HP.

 

Thanks for the info.


As for the Turbo, it's kind of COOL to feel a little lag and then the power climb the way it does.

And then the PSSSSHHHHHTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! of the blow off valve when you let off of the throttle.

I'm still trying to figure out how I should make mine louder. A lot of air comes out of it, but I can't hear it very well especially when I am riding.

 

WOW, I searched the net for some info on the Yamaha Rhino's because I was approached by a customer that wanted his turbo charged. I found this site and had to join. I really don't know where to begin on this topic......First I guess is the supercharger versus turbo topic, any given engine turbocharged will outperform a supercharger, why? For one it takes power to turn a blower and make boost, an ATI Procharger (used to have one on my Mustang) for example, the D-1B to be more specific at 17 PSI going into the engine, it robbed me of over 100 horse. Hard to believe? Did you know the legendary 426 Hemi engine does not make enough horse stock to even turn a Top Fuel dragster blower? Anyway, the other thing to point out is AVERAGE horsepower, not peak. A turbo charged engine makes peak boost long before a centrifical blower because the turbo isn't waiting for the engine to increase RPM to make more boost.

For the guy who said his supercharger on his Rhino spins 150,000 RPM and blowers spin faster than any turbo......I can post every compressor map for turbochargers that I have, not to many spin under 150,000 RPM, most hit up the 220,000 RPM mark. A Rotrex is the only blower I know of that can spin as high as turbo with a redline of 240,000 RPM, but then again the biggest head unit they make supports 650 horse or so....my old Procharger supported 850 HP with a redline of 65,000 RPM, thanks to the billet impeller (D-1B) the D-1's redline is 55,000 RPM. But, who cares, I had a Honda pull up next to me and brag about turning 7,000 RPM...I spun my 302 to 6,000 RPM, he ran 14's, I ran low 11's.

As far as turbo's suck otherwise top fuel cars would use them, well it was already mentioned but, NHRA outlawed turbos a long time ago, and it's a proven fact that halfway through a run, the big bad blower you dream about becomes a restriction. One of the reason's they like to throw the belt halfway through a run, the other which happens alot at high altitude tracks is because they try to spin the blower so fast to off-set the thin air, so that way it helps them for the first second or so into the race. Think about it, how is it they can run the same times or faster whether they loose the belt at half track or not? I have a good friend that is a mechanic on a top fuel crew, so we can do this all day. Next thing you'll say is diesel engines suck because they don't use spark plugs and top fuels do? But I'll just point out that the ignition system puts a 44 amp per plug spark in each cylinder and again by half track the ignition system fails only because the spark plugs are destroyed and the engine continues on because what's left of it glows red hot along with the exhaust valve much like how a radio control airplane engine works, and "diesels" itself to the finish line at 300+ MPH.

Later

 

the supercharger they use on the rihno is the rotrex c-16 charger. in all intended uses, this supercharger works better on an atv because it is already building boost at an idle. about 2lbs.. it has very impressive throttle response and the bottom end is great. true ,you will get better high end power with a turbo, but you will not get the bottom end that you get with the supercharger.

we have run the same supercharger on the yamaha apex sleds as well as three different turbo setups. all three turbo setups can and do produce more topend power, but the supercharger has the best throttle response by far.

so in closing i guess i am trying to say that depending on what you want to do with your unit, you will have to decide what you want to run.

p.s. the supercharged sled and the turbo charged sled were within 7hp at the same boost on the dyno. 10 lbs boost on identical engines. the turbo produce 7 more peak hp. at 10500rpm. so this type of supercharger is very efficient , almost as good as a turbo.

maniac

 

WOW...I think ill just stay with the little blue bottle..[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]