Amen Modquad.....I agree 100%.........

 

You guys will have to understand he has a yamaha, and thats the bottom line!



I have beat a YFZ in 300 feet, and have be beat by another YFZ! Now lets talk about the Raptor.....A piped Raptor don't stand a chance with me.

 

I have a Yamaha Raptor 660 and 80. I have a Kawasaki utility, I sold a Honda Utility to buy it. My step-father and mother ride 2 polaris utility machines. I grew up on Hondas with an 85 LT250R thrown in the mix. I think I'm pretty well rounded and can get past any "manufacturer bias".

Modquad, my point is that it took them this long to get started in the sport market. Since it took them this long, maybe you can draw the conclusion that it wasnt a priority on thier list. And if you draw that conclusion then you may be able to infer that expanding thier sport atv lineup may not be a high priority now. Is that at all clear?

Its great the Polaris is putting money into racing, and that they have done so much to improve the Predator and appear commited to continuing that trend. But it does not say anything to me about the feasibility of a new sport atv like the one mentioned in the initial post. That is the point here, more sport quads from Polaris.

Bryce, was it a concious decision to ignore this statement in your post?
Here I state that the Pred does indeed have the handling advantage as a result of the very points you made. It appears as though you and I seem to agree on at least the fact that the Pred handles better than the rap. So why are you grilling me about it?

And RAJ, I'm sure you have a great bike and I'm sure it really goes. I'll even wager that you really can beat piped raptors consistently. But my raptor and many others are quite a bit faster than stock or a piped machine and you need some noteable internals before you go challenging too many other raptor riders.

 

The banshee has been out for...18 years. Raptor for 4. Neither of them is really suited to the same type of racing that the 250R has dominated for the last decade or two or that the pred has entered into. They have both had some GNCC experience and many try to MX them, but not to much success. Yamaha started sponsorship when thier RACE quad was released, the YFZ. Kawi just backed out of sponsorship for the GNCC didnt they? Zuki did step up, and so did Honda when it released its race bike. Remember Tim Farr???

That was my point modquad, they never even made a sport quad until 2 years ago. I'm "diggin'" on them because they took that long to put a machine into the act, I could give a darn less whether they have a sponsored rider. I'm more concerned with the consumer market in this conversation. Right now the Polairs loyal who wants a sport quad only has one choice. It's a great bike, but not a race machine in the same sense as the 400 and 450 class machines. It would be nice for the MN boys to go one way or another with the pred and then release another sport to fill the other gap. I'd probably be asking too much for a manual shift 300ex/warrior sized machine for smaller, younger, or less experienced riders. I suppose the auto offerings from Polaris are plenty capable of filling those needs, but sometimes its nice to learn how to use a clutch and get used to it on a less powerful machine.

 

No, not at all. My point is that the Raptor is a poor choice in the Yamaha lineup to compare to the Predator. The YFZ is a much more obvious quad to compare.
BryceGTX

 

I don't think I challenged anyone on here. I don't have a problem beating a piped Raptor! I'm not talking about engine moded Raptors. All I have is a pipe and a header.

 

I am somewhat confused about your position maddog56. Polaris released a class leading sport quad. Now they need to market this quad by sponsoring a racer. This will lead to more exposure in the market. This will lead to more sales. Polaris and any manufacturer for that matter has always released their newest technology in the best/most expensive quads. EFI in the 800/700 for example. Then this great technology filters down to the less expensive quads. So Polaris is in the position that their best/most capable sports quad is the Pred. Surely if there is a market for a 300 class machine, presumably Polaris will enter it. On the other hand, if the market is for a 700, I'm sure they'll go that way. Do you really expect them to release a complete line of 250,350,450,500,700 in such a short time? Clearly, since Polaris has never created such a quad, don't you think it would be reasonable that they enter the market with a single entry so they can learn? Would you rather they created 5 models with problems instead of one? These guys learned about the problems with the early Preds really quick and solved them. They will now be in much better position to come out with additional bigger/smaller models that will be much more perfected. Clearly Polaris is a very astute company!!
BryceGTX

 

What class exactly does the Pred lead? I'm honestly unaware of what class Polaris has determined it belongs in. Here you are telling me it's best compared to a YFZ because the Raptor is just way too inferior to compete with it. Yet, the Predator does not fare any better against the YFZ than you say the raptor does to the Pred. Where the heck is this machine supposed to be? If it belongs on the track then Polaris needs to shed 50 pounds and 50cc's and make it an mx bike, otherwise it needs to be made clear that comparisons are for recreational purposes and riders.

My position is that Polaris ignored the first Sport ATV boom and waited 4 years to join the second one. It was obviously not important enough at those times for the company to compete in that market. But just because they release one recreational manual clutch sport quad and throw a couple bucks at a pro rider doesnt say that Polaris has any commitment towards expanding their Sport ATV line. And that my friends was the entire point of this gawdy and unattractive thread, the expansion of the Polaris Sport ATV line.

Just so that I'm clear on my point: "Polaris' history of involvement in the Consumer Sport ATV market does not indicate that the market is a high priority for them. Because of that, its not as likely that we will see the Polaris Sport ATV lineup expand at any large or impressive rate, if at all."

 

Well guys I'm glad to see I'm not the only one "missing" Maddog's point. Maddog, let me give ya a little history lesson. Polaris has been manufacturing utility and recreational based ATV's since they entered into the ATV market. Are you at all aware of the legal battles the ATV industry suffered through for 10 years? There has been a great deal of cautious marketing...basically manufacturers have seemed to be walking on egg shells. Notice all those nifty waring stickers all over a brand new quad...well that's part of the result. There are some very ignorant people in the world, and ATV's can be dangerous. Yes, the few blockheads ruin it for everyone.

Polaris began a 3 year R&D program to develop the Predator. They entered it into the sport market. They opened their doors to rider feedback. They've upgraded the units to meet what the consumers told them they wanted, and now, it's a pretty darn polished product. Hence, now, they feel even more comfortable in openly entering the racing arena. So, from product introduction, to product perfection, now into financial backing of racing....a mere two years. If you want to gig a corporation for a time line like that...you will be do nothing but blowing hot air.

Time to refocus your gunsights on your beloved Yamamha, Honda, Bombardier. Oh, I forgot John Deere! Ya better get on those green guys, they've had a quad out for a while now too.

Get a clue, Polaris has stepped up far beyond any other ATV manufacturer. Period.

Actually I should take the Bomber group out of the above. Bomber, along with Polaris and Arctic Cat are the great supporters of WSA which is near and dear. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] Support those companies who support the racers.

 

Thanks for the History lesson, it was completely unnecessary and somehow wrong even though you left it vague. Polaris has been manufacturing Utility and recreational quads since it started? What a profound statement!!! Geez, I never could have guessed that a company has been making products since it started. Did they make any sport quads? Nope, thats my point. Lawsuits? In case you need a history lesson, the vast majority of legal troubles in the 80's were from 3 wheelers, not sport atvs. The pressure from 3 wheelers caused the downturn of the sport atv market because the companies didnt want to encounter the same thing with their quads that they had just gone through with their 3 wheelers. Lawsuits for 4 wheeled sport quads were far less abundant and severe as those from trikes. Didnt stop Yamaha from producing 2 sport atvs though, and Suzuki kept thier 2 stroke screamers into the early 90's.

You just dont get it. Yamaha, Honda, and Bomb all made sport quads before Polaris since 99. Bomb already has pressure from its consumers to expand thier sport atv lineup. Honda and Yamaha have plenty of sport offerings, why should I get after them? Cute with the John Deere crack, but since they outsource Bomb it would make more sense to pressure Bomb.

As for the "Polaris has stepped up more than any other manufacturer" quote, are you serious? In the sport atv market Polaris is a minor player with only one offering to the table. No choices, no clear class determination, just one American quad with a Japanese engine in a sea of competitors with more emerging every day.

If you arent getting my point, that Polaris hasnt traditionally cared much about the sport market, then you need to try a little harder or maybe explain to me what your having a problem with so I can help. All I keep hearing you say is that Polaris is making steps with the pred. Thats great, and its great, but that doesnt show me an expanded lineup or even that the sport market will become important enough to have more.