I went up to the local polaris dealership last week to buy a new ktm outlaw. Instead after having the owner of the dealership tell me how much maintenance was involved with the ktm engine I decided to pick up a predator instead. He said to change the oil at the first 3 hours, then every 10 hours. Also he said that he was told that after every 10 hours of use that you have to adjust the valves. He told me that it was definitely not something that you could drive whenever and throw back in the garage and not worry about. He basically talked me out of a sale for the ktm outlaw. I wanted something fast that was reliable with reverse. So after driving the predator he had, I decided to get that instead. So far running against a new kfx 700 and a modded banshee has been no problem. And the fact that I outweigh both of the owners of those quads by over 150 lbs makes me totally happy with my purchase of the predator. I'm not ragging on the ktm outlaw but just letting everyone know the reasoning behind me passing on the outlaw. I'm not paying $7,000 for something that needs valve adjustment constantly. If I was a pro racer then I'm sure it would be worth it.

 

oh boy... sorry, but if what you wanted was a low maintenance machine, you made the wrong choice. predators require valve adjustments constantly, the difference is, the KTM valve adjustment takes 10 mins, a screwdriver and a box end wrench. We're pros at doin' it on preds and can do it in about 30 mins now, but you still have to pull the cams and take the side of the case off to re-time it EVERY TIME. Also, your deler is incorrect on the oil changes. The Predator book says every 10hrs, the Outlaw 525 says every 15. They also say check your valves every oil change, not necessarily adjust them. I've talked to lots of people who adjusted them 1 or 2 times during break in, then not again for over a year (on the bike). Also, if you don't check the valves on the Predator rather frequently, the top end will come apart, you'll burn valves, or smash valve seats back into the head. I'm sorry, and not trying to be a jerk, but i actually switched from a Predator to the 525 Outlaw, for the same reason, looking for something more reliable. I hope your Pred motor works good for you, but mine surely didn't, and every bit of research i've done on the 525 says it will be far more reliable in the long run...

 

Not trying to argue with you but my buddy bought a new predator back in 03 and has run the crap out of it nonstop ever since and never once had to get any valves adjusted on it. Maybe he got lucky...? Every predator I've seen has been a little noisy but all of them ran great and never had to get adjusted nor did "the topend fly apart" on any of them either. Like I had said earlier I was only telling you what my local dealer told me. I was simply going off of what he said and he had all the 4wheelers in stock. The predator 500, outlaw 500, ktm outlaw 525 so there is no real reason why he would just make anything up since the ktm outlaw costs more than the other two listed. Trust me I had every intent on buying the ktm and he simply talked me out of it. I just bought a new scrambler 500 last month from the same dealership so I was figuring that he wouldn't steer me wrong. Maybe I should have stuck with my original intent and just bought it anyways. I like the independent rear concept a lot and I wanted something to outrun my buddies with. But what really matters in the end is that I'm happy with my purchase and your happy with your purchase. We BOTH got what we wanted.

 

i agree with you there... i just don't know why he would have given you information that was contrary to the service manual's information... that's all. As i said before, i hope your Preddy works great for you. We run the CRAP out of ours, full throttle all day every day, and use the upper R's a lot, as a result lots of valve adjustments are required, if you don't do them, the head will come apart and you'll need a new one. Just something to keep in mind, i'd rather have you know that the valves on the Preds need adjusted more the harder you run them, then run yours hard and have it fail like mine did... Good luck w/ it, and i agree, i hope the 525 Outlaw turns out to be what i'm looking for, otherwise i'll have to either 1 sell it and buy an old 250R, or 2: get an HPD race chassis for my scrammy, as it has been the most reliable machine anyone in our group has ever had... oh well [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] best of luck to you, and if you need help doin' valve adjustments we can all tell you how, i'm thinking of doing a write up on it, complete w/ pictures next time one of us needs it.

 

Your dealer just pulled a fast one on you. I would be p.oed. What he was talking about is if your a full blown racer, not your everyday rider. Even the manual that comes with the 525 isn't even close to what he said. He knows the 525's will sell and not the Pred. So he talked you out of a very sweet ride so to sell a Pred. Well he did his job well. I would never believe any dealer as they will steer you to the ones that won't sell. Seen it many times. He filled you with a lot of BS. You need to do research before you buy.

 

So me being an average rider with the predator doesn't require often valve adjustments is what your saying? I don't know. I guess I'll ride it and if something happens it's got a warranty for a little while. I just know how my buddies ran perfect and all he did was drag race it everytime he drove it. He rode it enough to go through about 4 sets of tires that I know of. I guess I'll just keep an open ear to any weird noises I ever hear and go from there. Thanks for the heads up though. Maybe I'll just pay the dealership to adjust them once every 6 months or so......? How involved is it to adjust them?

 

Any bike is gonna need the valve adjustment checked, if not tweaked a little after break in.

Take just about an new quad in for a 10 hour check up at the dealer and see if valve adjustment isn't on the bill.

 

unfortunately, the relative pain in the butt that the valve adjustments are for these new DOHC machines is one if the main reasons i went to the KTM powerplant. This is a quick overview:

1) pull of side panels, front cab, and gas tank.
2) remove valve covers.
3) check valve clearence w/ feeler gauges, (BE SURE YOU'RE AT TDC!)
4) if they are out of spec, pull cam tensioner, then pull cam retainer. (Specs: Intake: 0.006 +/- 0.002 Exhaust 0.010 +/- 0.002)
5) remove the buckets and pull the shims
6) read the number on the shims and determine from the table in the service manual, what new shims you need to replace these ones with
7) go buy new shims
8) install new shims and replace buckets, but not cams yet
9) remove right side case cover and use an impact driver to remove the nut holding on the drive gear on the crank shaft (as well as a washer and that gear)
10) align the bottom gold link on the chain with the mark on the lower gear.
11) align and install the top cams with their respective gold links (see service manual)
12) re-install cam retainer.
13) re-install lower drive gear
14) re-install cam tensioner, being sure to compress spring before doing so, again, see service manual.
15) check timing again to be sure it's good, then put machine in gear and push it until the engine rotates at least 1 full turn, make sure nothing binds (had a guy mess this up, and the electric start button turned fast enough to bend his valves when they hit the piston, since then this is an important step to the guys in my group)
16) re-install right side of case, and valve covers.
17) reinstall plastic and tank

and Presto you're done!

Forgive my negativity, but we've got 3 of these motors in our group (since i got rid of mine) and it just seems like i've gotta do this to someone's every other weekend... I'll do a write up, complete w/ pictures here soon... i think my friend w/ the Outlaw 500 needs his done. That'll make for a good project... but i'm busy for the next 2 weeks... oh well, i'll try to get on it asap. Like i said above tho, when you ride hard, it becomes important to do this often, and with the Outlaw 525's KTM motor, all you do is get the moter at TDC and measure clearance, if it's out, loosen a locknut, turn the flat head stud whatever way, until it's in, then tighten the lock nut. Replace valve-covers and you're done! not to mention that this doesn't require me to go buy new shims every 3 weeks or so liek my preddy did. (btw, the 450R & YFZ450 use the same shims and the ground ones for them from Hot Cams are WAY CHEAPER!) but not as high quality. If you haven't build your motor, they're fine, if you have, you need to spend $9+ a shim from polaris and get the good ones... hope that helps [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

Im sorry the dealer LIED to you. The KTM is by far the most dependable and easiest to work on of all the 4 strokes. I would say the 700 Raptor is next in line. All the 450 based engines require tons of up keep. Also the 500 pred valves wear out fast. And when they do this they strat making less noise because the valve face wears and lets the valve ride higher up and takes up the valve clearance. And this is what makes them get slugish and harder to start.

 

agrees, seen it a few times... mostly with my own pred as i simply rode it way too hard aparantly (personally i don't get why they make the motor make its peak horsepower at just around the point where it's valves will DIE) anyway, i've seen in dennis kirk, some stainless steel valves, which hopefully my friend can buy, b/c he's out of adjustment, and the next time his valves go out of spec... he will either need new valves (or if that doesn't do it,) a new head [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]!