wrong, wrong, wrong

Sorry Lukester, but this is another uninformed bash post from the Buy American side. Why do you think this subject has gone nowhere in the WTO? Because it's the pot calling the kettle black. (NASA or US GOVT taxpayer money vs/ low interest French Govt. loans that they have to pay back, you tell me the difference).

To tell you the truth, I don't care too much because we have tons of content on the Airbus. There needs to be competition or things go nowhere. Its healthy and only the strong survive, not excuse makers.

How about the $16,000 the US is paying Polaris for each ATV? Is that subsidizing? You bet it is. And it's the best thing that could ever happen to Polaris.......besides "buy American".

Nobody in the Buy American crowd can substantiate how only buying American will solve our economic problems, or why we wont suffer the same fate that other protectionist economies did by applying the same philosophy. They offer nothing except excuses and failed ideas. No solutions.

I'll buy American, when it is the best for my needs. I paid more for my Miller 35 than I could have gotten a cheap import for. I don't feel any more patriotic, just smarter. (although the same thing can't be said about Hobarts, boy are they junk now). Same thing if I bought an Accord over a Ford Taurus. No less patriotic, but a lot smarter. I know some people won't get this, but you can only lead a horse to water.

So stick that bumper sticker slogan where it belongs, stand up and fight. You want the market share, build a better widget. You want lower price and/or more margin, become more efficient. But enough with the excuses and BS post nitpicking.

 

First of all, we have pointed out exactly why buying American helps our economy. Even the documents supplied by the guys with off-shore-itis have supported our claim that buying American is better for the US economy. And it seems to me that the very protected economy of Japan is doing quite well or have you not noticed that?

And yes, it will provide the solution. Toyota is the most vertically integrated automotive company in the world. One of the reasons this happened is that that they face no off-shore competition in the Japanese automotive markets. As a result, the Japanese domestic market feels very little pressure to reduce costs in Japan. Or they can do it at their own leisure. This means that the parts suppliers in Japan do not feel the price pressure that parts suppliers in the US feel. Hiowever, since their parts costs are lower than the US domestic auto makers parts cost, they can pressure the US domestic automakers to reduce their parts cost. This means the American domestic automakers must go off shore for cheap parts and cheap labor. As far as vertical integration, GM and Ford, on the other hand, are trying to make themselves be even less vertically integrated because they know that the parts suppliers that they own (Delco..) will never be able to compete with off-shore parts suppliers. This is exactly one of the problems. Now if GM had a protected market in the US like Toyota had in Japan, they could reduce their parts cost using improved production techniques and apply these techniques at their leisure, just like Toyota.

So the first SOLUTION that must come about is that this inequity of markets must be fixed. The solution must come in two forms. First, the Japanese market must be opened immediately. This means that American companies are free to buy Japanese companies (which is not the case now) and all tariffs on US products must be removed. Next, the Japanese companies must be charged a tariff on any products imported into the US or made in the US to counter the benefits they have enjoyed over the many years that the Japanese tariffs have been in place. If it was good for the Japanese market, then I am sure it will be just as good for the American market. Once the two markets are balanced, the tariffs can be removed. The next SOLUTION is that domestic auto makers must become more corporate responsible. This means that the given this reprive, the domestic auto makers must use this grace period to increase efficiency and build domestic manufacturing prowness rather than line investors pockets. The next SOLUTION is that Unions and Domestic auto makers must come to realistic concessions on everyones wages and benefits so that the company does not go down the tubes and the worker does not get screwed. The last SOLUTION is that much of this windfall from the tariffs must be invested to support the huge retirement costs that we will face and remove that cost from the domestic auto makers. The above solutions are meant to fix problems that were created by people on both sides of the ocean and create an equitable playing field for both domestic and foreign auto makers.

It is ridiculous that out of 4,000,000 autos sold in Japan each year that less than 10,000 are US automobiles. The reason for this inequity is the unfair trade barriers put up to US companies. Not only can we not sell there for a reasonable amount of money, but we cannot buy Japanese companies to help us sell there. Ford only owns 39% of Mazda. Chrysler has never owned 50% of Mitsubishi. And don't give us the silly argument that 4 million cars is a small market!!

 

Well put Propnut!!

Is that the cost of the MV-7? Wow! It's not quite a $250 hammer, but Polaris is definitely getting it's mark-up (subsidy).

 

Shame on you Propnut and 05PRED500. You guys should check your facts first. The government is only paying $10,927 for the MV700.

 

GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE!!!!!

Re-read my post. I ASKED if that was the amount.

I tend to believe propnut. He possibly has some information on this that you don't

 

Good choice, however, you only have to look at the PDF file that lists the GSA prices on the Polaris web site to find the true price.

 

Propnut says:
So Propnut why were you complaining about Wal mart in an earlier post? Is is arguably the most efficient, most streamlined, the best example of lean techniques and one of the best managed retailers in the world. Seems to me that you are setting a double standard.

 

propnut,

The EU has provided billions of euros in military R&D funding to Airbus. You stick with EU Airbus, while I stick with American Boeing. By the way, the Boeing Machinist Union and Boeing have done more for us (U.S.) than them anyway (thread related topic). And no, I don't work for Boeing or their Union.

Oh yeah, the U.S. Govt. is fighting the EU on this one. The same Govt. that has given away so much in trade negotiations fights for Boeing!

Peace

 

Bryce stay on your high horse.....

 

Polaris Industries was awarded a 5-year, $10.3 million contract by the United States Department of Defense’s Special Operations Command for the production and delivery of up to 700 ATVs

$10,300,000 divided by (up to) 700 = $14714. Just looked it up really quick. When I saw the initial numbers it came out closer to $16,000 per ATV, regardless of what the published individual cost is. What's the extra $4K for?

The US stance on the European subsidies is political, not economic. It's propaganda aimed to garner votes. Looks like they got some of you!!

Look and see how much Japan is subsidizing the 787 (the Japanese are a partner in this aircraft). NASA taxpayer money used by Boeing is a subsidy, regardless of how you defend it. Billions.

Bryce is babbling nonsense again. Walmart is not a manufacturer, they are a US manufacturer killer. Different animal, hee haw.