Anyone see the crap about the new Rincon?
#71
07-16-2002, 03:42 PM
Rincon and Prairiedust make two good points. First Rincon's: The Bombardier is fast on the strip. Particularily in sandy or loose soil starts.
But Prairiedust speaks the truth about the Prairie 650 dusting everyone up to 50 mph. I know because stock for stock I raced them at multiple brand dealerships.
SP700 vs 650 -- The 650 jumps right out to about a four to five quad length lead. My buddy and I raced multiple times at Wheel's Inc. in Fargo, ND right out on the frontage road in front of the dealership. Wheels, Inc. sells Suzuki, Polaris, and Kawasaki. We even took turns with each one of us on each quad. The 650 always won.
660 vs. 650 -- Same scenario at Seaburgs in Detroit Lakes, MN. They sell Yamaha and Kawasaki. Three to four length lead from the start every time no matter who drove.
Each of these races were for shorter distances since what we were doing was not looked upon so well. But hey, it was my money, I was ready to buy and I wanted to know.
In the meantime, I ran across another rider with a SP700 and he wanted to race. This time the 650 was my own and I have 27" Gators to his stock tires. I kicked his butt right away but killed my speed at 60 mph as my Gators are squirrly at that speed. He was gaining though. We raced again with the same result. We traded quads, raced again and it was still the same result. Its a pretty cool site seeing my 650 taking off like that in front of me.
Another country neighbor of mine just got a new green 660. We raced with my Gators and I only had a one quad lead again until I hit 60 mph. He never gained on me or lost any distance but he was right there. I told him ahead of time that I will cut my power at 60 because of the squirrly Gators at that speed.
I went into these races with confidence knowing what I knew from dragging these quads at the dealerships. I definetly lost some top speed with bigger tires but I still kicked butt with the better clutching of the Kawi. The poor SP700 just could not get out of the hole as fast enough.
These are the reasons I got my 650. I seriously want the SP700 and the IRS when I was looking at quads. But the 650 kicked it so hard in a race my ego said to take the 650. And my intent was to get a nice utility for hunting. Ego's do weird things to us men sometimes.
Same thing with the Grizz. After ruling out the SP700 I decided to consider the Griss 660 because of IRS. The owner of the shop is a die-hard Yamaha man and he just shook his head at the race. But he knew the outcome cause he raced them too. He told me that he loves Yamaha more than anything, but Yamaha thus far has met its match. He even talked me out of the IRS due to my particular riding needs. Lot's of ND slough bottoms where grass would get caught up in the complexity of the IRS.
So here I am a Prairie 650 owner. They are all great ATV's and will meet most or all of your needs. But I certainly have no regrets getting the 650 over any thing else. And in reading about all the minor issues with the SP700, I know I would have regreted not getting the 650 had I not done so. End of message, have a nice day!
Daryn
But Prairiedust speaks the truth about the Prairie 650 dusting everyone up to 50 mph. I know because stock for stock I raced them at multiple brand dealerships.
SP700 vs 650 -- The 650 jumps right out to about a four to five quad length lead. My buddy and I raced multiple times at Wheel's Inc. in Fargo, ND right out on the frontage road in front of the dealership. Wheels, Inc. sells Suzuki, Polaris, and Kawasaki. We even took turns with each one of us on each quad. The 650 always won.
660 vs. 650 -- Same scenario at Seaburgs in Detroit Lakes, MN. They sell Yamaha and Kawasaki. Three to four length lead from the start every time no matter who drove.
Each of these races were for shorter distances since what we were doing was not looked upon so well. But hey, it was my money, I was ready to buy and I wanted to know.
In the meantime, I ran across another rider with a SP700 and he wanted to race. This time the 650 was my own and I have 27" Gators to his stock tires. I kicked his butt right away but killed my speed at 60 mph as my Gators are squirrly at that speed. He was gaining though. We raced again with the same result. We traded quads, raced again and it was still the same result. Its a pretty cool site seeing my 650 taking off like that in front of me.
Another country neighbor of mine just got a new green 660. We raced with my Gators and I only had a one quad lead again until I hit 60 mph. He never gained on me or lost any distance but he was right there. I told him ahead of time that I will cut my power at 60 because of the squirrly Gators at that speed.
I went into these races with confidence knowing what I knew from dragging these quads at the dealerships. I definetly lost some top speed with bigger tires but I still kicked butt with the better clutching of the Kawi. The poor SP700 just could not get out of the hole as fast enough.
These are the reasons I got my 650. I seriously want the SP700 and the IRS when I was looking at quads. But the 650 kicked it so hard in a race my ego said to take the 650. And my intent was to get a nice utility for hunting. Ego's do weird things to us men sometimes.
Same thing with the Grizz. After ruling out the SP700 I decided to consider the Griss 660 because of IRS. The owner of the shop is a die-hard Yamaha man and he just shook his head at the race. But he knew the outcome cause he raced them too. He told me that he loves Yamaha more than anything, but Yamaha thus far has met its match. He even talked me out of the IRS due to my particular riding needs. Lot's of ND slough bottoms where grass would get caught up in the complexity of the IRS.
So here I am a Prairie 650 owner. They are all great ATV's and will meet most or all of your needs. But I certainly have no regrets getting the 650 over any thing else. And in reading about all the minor issues with the SP700, I know I would have regreted not getting the 650 had I not done so. End of message, have a nice day!
Daryn
#72
07-16-2002, 04:10 PM
Drag raceing brand new quads in a parking lot is not going to show you the actual quad capabilities. (and its a very bad thing to do to a brand new motor)
4Strokes have a lot of moving parts to break in, and a motor with 10 HRS on it will usually be very different than it was brand new.
From what I've seen it is very close, about 1 quad length, with all the big 4X4's, and that inclused the 500HO.
But the Kow 650 does seam to have a better hole-shot, probably due to lighter weight and good weight transfer on takeoff.
They are all very, very close indeed.
4Strokes have a lot of moving parts to break in, and a motor with 10 HRS on it will usually be very different than it was brand new.
From what I've seen it is very close, about 1 quad length, with all the big 4X4's, and that inclused the 500HO.
But the Kow 650 does seam to have a better hole-shot, probably due to lighter weight and good weight transfer on takeoff.
They are all very, very close indeed.
#73
07-16-2002, 04:59 PM
I am gonna open a can of worms here, I guess, but I have 2 nagging questions in the back of my mind about the Rincon tranny.
1). What about if you DO need to be towed back, even if it is just because you ran out of gas. A friend of mine towed their auto-tranny car about 6 or 7 miles and ruined something in the tranny. Seems if the engine wasn't running, all the innards weren't getting lubed.
2). Just how 'idiot proof' will it be. Now a belt, you can abuse, neglect, and ignore, and USUALLY, it only costs a $30 belt. What about the guy who never changes filters, and 'extends' his oil change intervals longer than he should?
I am not saying Honda didn't address these issues, just that if they have, I don't know about it.
Farmr
1). What about if you DO need to be towed back, even if it is just because you ran out of gas. A friend of mine towed their auto-tranny car about 6 or 7 miles and ruined something in the tranny. Seems if the engine wasn't running, all the innards weren't getting lubed.
2). Just how 'idiot proof' will it be. Now a belt, you can abuse, neglect, and ignore, and USUALLY, it only costs a $30 belt. What about the guy who never changes filters, and 'extends' his oil change intervals longer than he should?
I am not saying Honda didn't address these issues, just that if they have, I don't know about it.
Farmr
#74
07-16-2002, 09:53 PM
3TV
You are forgeting something in your comparison. Cars and trucks use separate oil systems for the transmission and the engine. The Rincon uses the same oil in the engine and transmission. Also, almost all 4x4's have low range. The Rincon does not and as a result the transmission will have to work harder.
You are forgeting something in your comparison. Cars and trucks use separate oil systems for the transmission and the engine. The Rincon uses the same oil in the engine and transmission. Also, almost all 4x4's have low range. The Rincon does not and as a result the transmission will have to work harder.
#75
07-17-2002, 01:27 AM
#76
07-17-2002, 01:39 AM
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#77
07-17-2002, 09:20 AM
3TV, the people I am talking about DID tow their car in neutral. Seems the lube pump in the tranny only pumps when the engine spins. I was just curious if the Rincon is the same way. Now, if they had a hi-neutral-low transfer case, I agree, pop it in Neutral and go, but does the Rincon have one, and is it OK to do this?
Automotive trannys run a long time when you don't change fluid like you should, but they don't run in engine contaminants, hence my concern.
I am NOT trying to flame Honda. I have a Fourtrax 300 from the mid-90s, and I might not ever wear it out. Just trying to learn all I can about the new machines before I jump on the bandwagon.
As far as I know, Honda really only made one true 'lemon' (by that I mean sold a machine that really needed more R&D to get things figured out before they released it) and that was the very first Fourtrax 4X4. The ones I have seen took a minimum of $500 a year to keep them going. To Honda's credit, it was mostly in the all-new front drive system, the motors went forever.
Automotive trannys run a long time when you don't change fluid like you should, but they don't run in engine contaminants, hence my concern.
I am NOT trying to flame Honda. I have a Fourtrax 300 from the mid-90s, and I might not ever wear it out. Just trying to learn all I can about the new machines before I jump on the bandwagon.
As far as I know, Honda really only made one true 'lemon' (by that I mean sold a machine that really needed more R&D to get things figured out before they released it) and that was the very first Fourtrax 4X4. The ones I have seen took a minimum of $500 a year to keep them going. To Honda's credit, it was mostly in the all-new front drive system, the motors went forever.
#79
07-17-2002, 11:41 AM
Farmr123
You have a valid concern. I thought about that too. You are right about burning up the transmission. If the engine is not running and you are towing it you can burn up a tranny pretty quick. The standard old turbo 350, ford c4 or c6, dodge 727 924 can be towed for a short distance (a few miles) with out problem. Most of the new transvers mounted automatics can be towed a maximum of 15ft and some even shorter than that. That's why they use so many flat beds to tow anymore. Most people don't know this. You can find more specific info from ATRA (Automatic Transmission Rebuilders Association). I hope Honda has thought of this and did something to get around it.
I think the Rincon will sell alot. I really like it. Where we ride out here it would be perfect. I have sportsmans for the suspension. Out here the softest ride is king. You can travel farther and faster with a good suspension than you can with horsepower. Out here the Kaw 650 is over looked most of the time because you simply can't ride it as fast or as far as a 500HO, 700 or Grizzley 660. It's just too rough out here. I envy all of the people that get to ride on long flowing trails without rocks. Out in this rock pile if you don't have the best ride you end up dropping a kidney somewhere on the trail. They call it the Rocky Mountains for a reason.
You have a valid concern. I thought about that too. You are right about burning up the transmission. If the engine is not running and you are towing it you can burn up a tranny pretty quick. The standard old turbo 350, ford c4 or c6, dodge 727 924 can be towed for a short distance (a few miles) with out problem. Most of the new transvers mounted automatics can be towed a maximum of 15ft and some even shorter than that. That's why they use so many flat beds to tow anymore. Most people don't know this. You can find more specific info from ATRA (Automatic Transmission Rebuilders Association). I hope Honda has thought of this and did something to get around it.
I think the Rincon will sell alot. I really like it. Where we ride out here it would be perfect. I have sportsmans for the suspension. Out here the softest ride is king. You can travel farther and faster with a good suspension than you can with horsepower. Out here the Kaw 650 is over looked most of the time because you simply can't ride it as fast or as far as a 500HO, 700 or Grizzley 660. It's just too rough out here. I envy all of the people that get to ride on long flowing trails without rocks. Out in this rock pile if you don't have the best ride you end up dropping a kidney somewhere on the trail. They call it the Rocky Mountains for a reason.
#80
07-17-2002, 12:12 PM
Yes, towing an automatic car in Neutral for more then just a couple miles, without removing the drive shaft will do MAJOR damage.
And the auto tranny in a 1974 is a very different animal then this computer controlled tranny and torque converter. Just the numerous sensors and solenoids needed to control that thing give it many possible reasons it might fail on the trail.
Tranny fluid is in a closed system on your car, and is basically perfectly clean hydrolic fluid. How is
Honda addressing that possible problem? Imagine that nasty black sludge you remove from your car after 5000 miles, put in your cars tranny. My guess, it would destroy your cars tranny in short order.
Im sure Honda has thought of all these problems and has a possible solution, but do we realy need that much to possibly go wrong?
These ATV's are toys that we entertain ourselves on, and they operate in completely "Hostile to Machinery" environments.
The cost, complexity, and lack of features (Low range, adjustable suspension, 4 wheel drive, 650 class power, etc.)on this machine seam to put it at a Huge disadvantage compaired to its competition.
And the auto tranny in a 1974 is a very different animal then this computer controlled tranny and torque converter. Just the numerous sensors and solenoids needed to control that thing give it many possible reasons it might fail on the trail.
Tranny fluid is in a closed system on your car, and is basically perfectly clean hydrolic fluid. How is
Honda addressing that possible problem? Imagine that nasty black sludge you remove from your car after 5000 miles, put in your cars tranny. My guess, it would destroy your cars tranny in short order.
Im sure Honda has thought of all these problems and has a possible solution, but do we realy need that much to possibly go wrong?
These ATV's are toys that we entertain ourselves on, and they operate in completely "Hostile to Machinery" environments.
The cost, complexity, and lack of features (Low range, adjustable suspension, 4 wheel drive, 650 class power, etc.)on this machine seam to put it at a Huge disadvantage compaired to its competition.