I'd like to chime in on this discussion as I probably have a bit more knowlege on the DS than the average poster...

First off, the KTM is a great machine. If not for the DS, that would be at the top of my list. EFI not withstanding to get a chromo frame and all those goodies on a stock machine is great...you pay a bit of a premium though but add to that the choice of motors, it's a great setup.

Now, I will tell you that the DS has some DNF's under it's belt and for good reason. Let me explain.

When the DS was revealed, the process of testing was ongoing. There was no release date because the plan was to not only test in private, but in public as well, because as anyone in the business knows, test all you want, problems really won't show till it's raced. So that's what they did. They have used this time to test different setups, and through this had discovered a few minor issues and have used this public testing to iron those out. Simple things like chaffed wires that ground out the motor, a sensor that went out and has been upgraded, broken sprocket and a team/rider choice in the last race where they decided to try for an extra lap with a mud packed radiator when everyone else would pit and clean every 2. The bike overheated and they pulled it off the track.

The misconceptions are amazing compared to the truth. The Altec frame for example has been examined more itself than most quads in their entirity. I showed their design to my father in law who is a master builder and retired racer of IRL cars and is a genius when it comes to structural design and he was very impressed at their design and evolution over the "bad designs in existing quads"

The front steering setup is a prime example and the "Shootout" in Dirt Wheels is a great example of everyone being used to bad geometry. It wasn't a real shootout, and quite frankly when you are used to riding quads with terrible design and geometry from the first Quadracer, the DS will feel quite different. Everyone that has ridden it and gotten acclimated to it has told me that when they go back to a traditional setup they really feel how poor the old stuff really is. This is again evident when I showed the two designs to my father in law, he said that the traditional design would kill someone if it was on a race car because the handling would be so much worse.

Bottom line is that the impact on design and engineering will be felt for years to come as it relates to the DS, as the whole class has benefited from the failure that was Cannondale....they showed the way...better shocks, more powerful motors, alloy frames and EFI....they took the step, and Can-Am took it a step up.

I suggest you see what both the Epic and Warnert riders do this year...Lawson and Natalie should be ripping and keep an eye on Greg Gee..that kid is fast!

TPR

 

i thought that natalie raced for suzuki??

 

Ne never raced the LTR. He's been winning on the Honda. He's for Can-Am for 08. If it survives him, it will do well. If he stinks it up, this will be a big blow for Can-am. He is there big dog.

 

Jeremy Lawson is right there with him and by his own account he was putting down laps 1-2 seconds faster at his practice facility than he was on the bike he raced last year. Think about that and consider this....they haven't dialed in the full race motor onto the mix. He started with a stocker motor with a pipe and programmer and they have steadily been adding in HP to his ride. The DS is very capable of putting out the 60+hp numbers the other pro's have and then some, he was probably at 50-55hp when his times started to drop and there is more power to be had.

Also, the talk about it being softer in the power department down low disappears when you simply add the pipe and do the ECI mod.....bet you didn't know that you don't need a programmer to add a pipe to the DS....if you look at the ECI on the DS there is a piece of electrical tape wrapped around the module. Take the tape off to expose the Pink wire...all you do is snip the wire and tape and seal the exposed ends and you will then be running a more aggressive program that will allow you to run an aftermarket pipe and add more power....FOR FREE!!!! I read about this I believe on the HMF site. Pretty slick....

Anyway, I can guarantee that the bike will hold up to the beatings it will get. It is incredible how strong the Altec frame is and people will see that fact played out during this season.....the sheer amount of time put into this frame in how it will react to differen loads and impacts is staggering....if you take a major hit, the energy has been engineered to transmit through the whole chassis, not just a particular area...this will allow the frame to last longer and have less of a chance of failure...During testing there was an incident where the bike took a hit so hard it damaged the whole front a-arm section on one side, an impact with a solid, stationary object, as they did regularly, they stripped the frame and put it on their chassis jig and found that not only did the frame not change any angle or dimension, but the replacement parts bolted back up with no fitament issues or binding. Bottom line, the components do what they are supposed to.

Is the frame indestructable??? Nothing is, but people will be amazed at just how much stronger (Yes I said stronger) than traditional frames, and so far, given the pictures I saw on another site of a damaged KTM front clip, at least as strong as the Chrome-moly KTM frame.

TPR

 

thank you TPR, it's nice to finally get some good information going in this forum, I agree with your assessment on the DS's Altec frame, I happen to be in a welding course and i know a thing or 2 about welds, and what problems could come with welded frames,and when i saw the altec frame, i was impressed, i originally planned on getting the KFX 450, knowing that heat weakens aluminum and knowing that they had to use more aluminum than normal to remedy the problem, now with the DS coming out, and a Can-Am dealer opening up shop in town, i think that i'll have to reconsider

 

There's somthing else you might not know....Kawasaki basically made their version of the Cannondale frame. They had 3 sent to Japan and used the basic structure, made a couple changes and tooled it to be easier to produce.

A lot of people think welds are the best....you being a welder should know where welds work best and where they should not be used. I ask this question to people that question if the frame and especially the lock bolts can hold up....

"How many welds do you think there are on a Boeing 747's structure?" Very few if any, the plane is rivited and bolted together and will take on much greater forces over much linger periods of time without fail.

Also, got some info of the Rossier site, this is a company telling you how much power this thing makes, EVEN IN COMPARISON TO THEIR OWN TRX AND YFZ RACE MOTORS!!!!

"Our pipe and cold air kit have given this already powerful quad a 6 H.P. gain at the previous peak of 7800 RPMs and a staggering 9 H.P. gain at 9,000, where the stock pipe has already fallen off. This means 1 less shift down that long straightaway. From 3,000 RPM to 7,000 RPM we are getting 4 to 7 H.P. across the board, and the torque peak has gone from 28 FT. LBS to 33! All this with just a pipe and filter. As a comparison, our fully built, ported and cammed, race gas engines for YFZ and TRX racers make 35 - 36 FT.LBS. Folks, this engine has some serious potential! "

I keep telling everyone how awesome this motor is and will become, this is their testimonial vs. their own work....impressive.


TPR

 

yes i know he raced honda and was do great but in the dirtwheels mag he said hes going with suzuki because they support there riders better

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: race4life254

yes i know he raced honda and was do great but in the dirtwheels mag he said hes going with suzuki because they support there riders better</end quote></div>

You're missing the point. He is going to ride DS450's for 08'. Suzuki is old news.

 

ok well i geuss thats good news but like everybody else said the can-am is a first year quad its going to have its problems

 

all quads have first year problems....which is probably why can am is doing public testing. I know they don't want first year tranny issues like fisrt year ds 650's or first year raptor 660's.