Rainking, thats the only time mine slipped too was when the belt got wet. After the snorkel job it never got wet again.

kodiak1, I agree 100%, the belt hassle is well worth the power recieved from the P650 but now you will have the same power with the better belt in the KQ700.

 

Hello everybody,
Just got back from Europe from a long trip through Eastern Europe (Romania and Hungeria), Vienna Austria and a quick stop in London, UK. It was great culture wise but happy to be back home with the Prairie in the garage.

Alltoys,
You are right about Bombardier bringing a better bigger Outlander based quad, but from inside information from a guy of Bombardier here in Quebec. He would only say, it will be a 2006 model coming out mid-2005, with IRS, V-Twin engine and he told me that we should be looking for 800cc engine (no 700cc) equiped with EFI. He also said that Bombardier is also working on optional performance accessories for that new ATV in order the be more competitive and follow the consumer demand for more performance oriented 4wd ATVs. Will see next year, but it sure sounds good to me! Can't wait the see that promotional video.

But, I am sad to hear that Kawasaki haven't equiped the new Brute Force and Prairie with EFI for 2005, but rather introduce EFI to their 2006 models. But, they still are great machines in my opinion. Brute Force has a softer suspension than what we were expecting, but, Elka suspension should take care of the softer Brute Force IRS and bringing back to its Prairie performance origin and removing a little bit of foam from its seat to lower its center of gravity should more than solve the problem.

Anyways, glad to be back!!

 

This thread is funny how people state "facts" on a machine that is not even out yet. I can't believe we aren't arguing about top speed yet with the old "my buddy rode a prototype and it did 75". The only "fact" that I see is the KingQuad price is definately sweet. On paper it would seem like the KingQuad would out handle the Brute in stock trim. Most people don't leave these quads stock for long though so I think you could almost toss that out of the equation for 80% of the people. EFI will make modding a lot more complicated and it's advantages/disadvantages are subjective. If you live in an area that changes from sea level to 5,000 ft you would be crazy to not want it. I personally would buy the KingQuad if I were choosing, based on price first and then features second, but to come on here and say it's already the clear winner is just retarded. For instance I have never ridden either, but I think I would like the Kawie diff lock better, but it doesn't mean it's better. Just better for me, but not enough to make me pick the Brute. It's alomost like some of us try so hard to convince ourselves that our quad (or future quad) is so superior that we get way too caught up in brand loyalty and make biased statements. And that's all I have to say about that.

 

Mojave,

When I get one I'll be sure to tell you everything I don't like about it just as much as everything I do like about it. I'm not brand loyal and if I have problems or see something others might not like I'll be the first to tell everyone since I would want the same UNBIASED honesty if someone else had a machine I was looking into. Everyone is just discussing the potential of what should be a great machine but I believe most would agree this can only be settled when it arrives plus in the end it's all subjective and personal preference. I do agree with you that the price is a major factor in my opinion since with all of it's features and that price you just can't go wrong. Personally I prefer a push button locker and the EFI is great for COLD weather riding and temp changes as well as elevation changes which is rarely brought up but more of a factor to me(here it goes from night's well below zero in the winter to days in the 90s in the summer so that is important if you don't want to rejet or play with the pilot screw every few months, just my thoughts other may not share that opinion). I know many people that just can't afford a big bore(I can't either really but I sacrifice because I love to ride) and I would never belittle their machines because they are the best machine for them. In conclusion...I'm DYING for the KQ to finally get here simply because like all others on here I just plain live to ride(well, my girlfriend come first but...ok, r-rated comment I'll repress : )).

Jesse

 

Nyroc,

I don't' think I am being rude in asking your opinion or justification on your thoughts about the Sprague Clutch or the fine points of the operation of the Grizz. The Suzy is not here yet so how can one say how it will work. From my experience with racing machines that have had the Sprague system the racers quickly change it out for a more tuneable sled system. It is true the belt will not slip because of the tension between the 2 sheaves but that is not the problem. The problem lies with the weights and how they engage with the drum. I have been involved with go karts, mini dragsters, and with sleds all these people will tell you the Sprague System is not performance friendly. You are limited, very limited when modifying this clutch. The Sprague System will not be as tuneable as the system on the Kawi, Polaris, Bombardier this is pretty much known. I never did say the belt would slip as other machines would but the performance will suffer more so when bigger heavier tires are installed with the Sprague System. This is not assumptions on my part it is the experience I have gained from being around people who have years of experience on these drive systems.

LittleBoy,

That sounds great about the Bomb Outlander coming out with 800cc EFI twin cylinder. I gather it will be a Rotax engine probably the toughest engine around. The great thing about Rotax there is so much stuff you can do to the engine that is readily available. I will have to wait for another year before I get an IRS system, lol. I hope it will have locking front end. The present Outlander lacks big time in this area more like Honda's 3 - wheel drive system. If Bomb wants to get into this market they will have to find another gear!!!!

 

Alltoys,
Don't think nyroc was implying that you were being rude rather trying to make it known he's not going to engage in a debate the likes of which has been going on in a few other threads...nyroc, am I in the ballpark? I've had nothing but good experience with the sprag clutch design but it seems you have quite the varied experience with them so your comments are a fair warning...hope I don't have the issues you describe but since I'm trying to convince myself not to go nuts modding(a difficult sell even in an internal debate) the machine that should actually help keep the problems at bay.
The fabled(I only say this since it's been a rampant rumor for quite a while now) bog bore Outlander should be a great machine and if I still had one to ride I would seriously consider waiting on it's arrival as I admire the revolutionary traits of the current model. Although I haven't owned a bomb I was under the impression the Visco-lok was one of the best front ends systems on the market, why don't you like it? The only reasons I can see are the lack of 4wheel engine braking which wouldn't bother me since I did just fine with my Pol.

Jesse

 

Alltoys, I haven't tuned a sprag, but I have worked on them, and I fully understand the reaon you say they aren't as tuneable.

I believe they are tuneable, some of them at least, if the shoe motion is hinged and not a compliant mechanism (depends on bending the metal built into the housing).

I can see why a racer would want to loose the weight and get a more easily tuned system with more easy to change weights and springs. We all know that.

I still hold by my belief that the sprag tuned for the same engagement RPM as one particular Kawi clutch will slip the same and perform exactly the same.

I won't argue that you are right about it not being the preferred system for racers.

However, Alltoys, I think the reason you and I don't talk much about stuff like this, is that we enjoy quads for different reasons. And, I think that the sprag system is a better system overall for more recreational kinds of riders like me, and not for people that do serious perf mods like you. I have never changed my primary spring. I have had a bunch of them but never put them in because I like the low rpm engagement and don't care if I get beat.

I saw my life pass before my eyes once as I watched my 650 pass over me one day. I wasn't only bruised. This probably affected me differently than your accidents affected you. This is the reason I am not as interested in making my 650 faster.

Kisssofdeath said he got his kodiak stuck deep in some stiff fudge and his engine did not have the power to turn the tires, the clutch stayed at the slip RPM. I am positive a belt clutch system tuned for the same rpms would do the same thing, except it would also burn the belt.

I had my 650 stuck bad with 28" tires, the difference is the P650 had enough torque to turn faster than the engagement rpm and the turns still spun.

I don't think sprags are bad for most people.

I also believe you can take the sprag out, put a shaft in and convert to a belt slip system, possibly with a few other mods. I think that may be essentially what your sled racer friend do.

 

Nyroc,

I didn't intend to ruffle your feathers or anyones for that matter I value your opinion as much as I do anyones. I do believe like yourself that the Prairie, Vinson, Sportsman, Grizzly ( quads of equal size ) are utility machines. 600 - 700 # machines take a special breed of racer to try to keep up with a race proven 300 - 400# quad almost impossible. I am sure Suzy has done their research, a light powerful quad will work much better in the goop as opposed to a heavy machine. There is no picking up the back end of a heavy quad in the mud, lol. I have like I said before had a Suzy and loved it, it just didn't have enough jam. I was looking forward when they brought out the 500 but it didn't have a locking front diff, that was a disappointment. All I can say is when the 700 King Quad comes out I will be there to have a good look!!!!

RainKing,

From what I have seen with the Outlander 400 with the Visko Lok is there wasn't enough power. Especially with bigger tires it would get stuck and when you tried to rock it from side to side the wheel that was supposed grab didn't. Visko Lok is supposed to transfer power to the wheel that has the most traction. It works but not fast enough!! When you put pressure on the left then transfer the pressure to the right quickly the Visko Lok doesn't go as fast as you resulting in a confused differential, one wheel turns faster than the other or they don't turn at all. The Quest works better probably because it has more power with the 650 but it still is a 750# machine. Still can't beat a locking front end in the mud, I truly hope Bomb will have a locking front differential!!!!

If anyone can get to test ride an Outlander especially going up hill you will impressed the IRS IMO. is the best!!

 

Alltoys,

I did a pretty thorough test ride with the Outlander including hills and the IRS was very impressive...major selling point for that machine and any future machine based on the same platform. I had my name on one when they first came out but decided on the SP700 because I couldn't justify the small price difference(dealer wouldn't budge on the bomb and got a deal on the SP) with how much more machine I got with the SP...that and I hadn't seen a bomb in action at the point which in and of itself scared me away. That next big Bomb should be an impressice machine and I eagerly await getting a look at one but hope I'll be more the satisfied with the KQ(ofcourse I thought that with the Sp). I have heard what your saying about the Viscolok but only from a couple of people, thought it was isolated or only a problem with the serious mudder.

Like Nyroc, I'm no racer but love to hit the trails, mud, and snow....drag racing never really interested me. Especially with an auto your comparing machines and not so much rider skill....if I was ever to race it would be GNCC type stuff where your seeing what the rider can do with the machine more then anything else. With this said I'm sure the sprag clutch will more then satisfy my tastes of riding as it has in the past on my Kod and on other machines I've ridden(Vinson, Grizz).

Jesse

 

Just a few more things to keep in mind when comparing the two clutch systems. As with anything else they both have their issues.

The Polaris/Kawasaki type clutch setup is idiot prrof when it comes to contaminates. Now, any clutch will have problems if you continuously soak it with dirty/sandy water, but the sprag set-up will jam up. Also, I have finished many mud races only to cross the last hole at a high rate of speed and soak my belt. of course a good snorkel setup will solve this problem, but without that snorkel set up, the spag clutch might keep you out of the second round. It takes much longer to dry and become effective again.

Now, the Polars/Kawsaki system is much more likely to slip in high range; therefore, the use of low range is required much more. Also, the low range has to be geared lower due to the clutch design. In addition to that, the Polaris'Kawasaki design produces more heat and requires more air flow.

All that being said, I am considering a third quad. I will be hard pressed not to buy an EFI so there may be a Suzuki in my near future. And, I would even consider the SP800EFI, but they have lost their damn minds with their list price. Between the weight issue and the list price, I just can't see it happening.