Suzuki Discussions about Suzuki ATVs.

1988 Suzuki LT-4WD No Spark!!!!!

Old Aug 2, 2009 | 06:41 AM
  #31  
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Hey Ken...

Thanks for your patience.

I printed the test and will do it again. But, this time, I will have someone help me. Flexing the wires and holding probes is quite difficult and a second person will be a great help. I cannot get someone here until Tuesday... so.......

FWIW:
The quad has started and ran perfectly all week. Then, a friend stopped in and I was showing him the Mad Maxx of Thunderdome machine. I started the bike up and it stalled. Then, for a brief period, it had no spark again. ( I checked for spark w/ a spare plug) Then, when I hit the start button, it fired perhaps twice. I would say, within 3 minutes it came to life and idled perfectly.

I'll get back to you when the testing is done again. Thanks again!
Jackie
 
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Old Aug 2, 2009 | 11:50 PM
  #32  
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As long as you are going to be unplugging connectors you should inspect and clean them. Check to insure that none of the female pins are stretched out (too big). If you see corrosion on male/female pins clean with scotch brite, emery cloth, or something. I would also use a contact cleaner such as this CRC CONTACT CLEANER 2000 PRECISION CLEANER 2140 CRC CHEMICALS USA on every connector you unplug even if it looks ok.

How did this go?




0. If you are still in a no start condition you can unplug (if you can unplug only this wire) the black yellow at the CDI and try to start, if it does start use your gas shutoff to stop engine. It will take a few minutes.

Did you try this?


1. The black/white wire must be grounded. Break the connection at the CDI and ohm from there to the neg battery terminal.(flex wire and monitor reading)

How many ohms?
How much variation when flexed?

1A. Ohm from the metal base of the spark plug to ground. Have your assistant grab the cylinder head and move around. Ohms? Variation?

1B. With leads positioned as in 1A try to find the engine ground wire and flex it.Variation?


2. The black/yellow wire must be high. To troubleshoot unplug black/yellow connector at CDI, connect test leads from harness side of wire to neg terminal of batt. With ignition on( don't start engine) you should read infinite, when off or kill switch on reading should be 0 ohms.

How many ohms with kill switch in run position?
How much variation when flexed?
You reported .002 ohms? Be careful if your meter is autoranging that it is still in the ohms scale and not kohms.



3. The white/blue wire must have continuity to the coil (from CDI).

How many ohms across coil (black/white to white/blue) at coil.
How many ohms from cdi white/blue wire (harness side) to ground? How much variation when wires flexed?

4. N.A.


5. Forget this one for now, since they have replaced it already.
The black and the blue (pink and brown at the CDI) from the magneto need to put out voltage.


6. Forget this one for now. The black/red and green (brown and green at CDI) need to put out a pulse from the pick up.


7. Check continuity on wires between pick up to CDI and magneto and CDI(flex wire and monitor reading). Also ohm each wire to ground. (neg batt terminal). See # 5 and 6 for colors.

Pink and brown(2 wires) at cdi should be black and blue(2 wires) in the harnes
s.

Unless otherwise noted ground= Negative battery terminal.


Well, after all this stuff checks out we'll move on to the magneto... Since it's an intermittent problem the wiring/connections are the first suspects. Plus pretty much everything else has been replaced...

Hey Jackie, I added a couple of new items. Also can you post a list of parts that were changed?

Thanks
Ken



 
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Old Aug 3, 2009 | 06:52 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Kenm
Hey Jackie, I added a couple of new items. Also can you post a list of parts that were changed?

Thanks
Ken



New parts:
1. neutral relay
2. coil
3. plug (in fact.. several)
4. CDI was swapped out w/ a known working part in a no spark condition & didn't help
5. regulator/rectifier swapped out w/ a known working part in no spark condition
6. neutral switch swapped out w/ a known working part in no spark condition
7. Stator/Magneto rebuilt by Ricks in NH

Thanks for your help, Ken!
Jackie
 
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Old Aug 3, 2009 | 07:06 AM
  #34  
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I forgot to mention:

A while back, when I was trying to get the quad running I unplugged all the connections and cleaned then using sand paper, files, and even a dremel tool. I then coated the contacts with dielectric grease. This is why, when the idiot at the dealer said the contacts were all green with corrosion, I knew he was trying to BS me.

I looked up the CRC contact cleaner you mentioned and it's really expensive. I would rather not purchase it, but if I must... no other alternative, I will get some. Seems to me, if the wires test out okay on either side of the connectors, especially with someone flexing and pulling on them the should be okay????? (notice.. that was a question LOL)

Jackie
 
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Old Aug 3, 2009 | 09:45 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by AdirondackGal
I forgot to mention:

A while back, when I was trying to get the quad running I unplugged all the connections and cleaned then using sand paper, files, and even a dremel tool. I then coated the contacts with dielectric grease. This is why, when the idiot at the dealer said the contacts were all green with corrosion, I knew he was trying to BS me.

I looked up the CRC contact cleaner you mentioned and it's really expensive. I would rather not purchase it, but if I must... no other alternative, I will get some. Seems to me, if the wires test out okay on either side of the connectors, especially with someone flexing and pulling on them the should be okay????? (notice.. that was a question LOL)

Jackie
Sounds like the connections are clean, I would make sure they are still tight though.

If you used dielectric grease on the pins it needs to come off as it's nonconductive. You can use some solvent.

Dielectric grease is a nonconductive grease. Because it is nonconductive it does not enhance the flow electrical current. Electrical conductors should not be coated with dielectric grease prior to being mated. However, dielectric grease is often applied to electrical connectors, particularly ones which contain rubber gaskets, as a way to provide a nonconductive lubricant and sealer for the rubber portions of the connector.

Testing on either side of the connector tests the resistance of the wire and the wire/pin connection, not the resistance between the two pins, which can be high due to a poor fit or corrosion.

Was the coil to plug wire replaced?
 
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Old Aug 4, 2009 | 08:01 PM
  #36  
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0. If you are still in a no start condition you can unplug (if you can unplug only this wire) the black yellow at the CDI and try to start, if it does start use your gas shutoff to stop engine. It will take a few minutes.

Did you try this?
Answer: Seems to me I tried this when the quad wouldn't start one time and it made no difference.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. The black/white wire must be grounded. Break the connection at the CDI and ohm from there to the neg battery terminal.(flex wire and monitor reading)

1. Answer: How many ohms? .00 ohms and never changed when flexing the wires
How much variation when flexed? NADA
------------------------------------------------------------------------
1A. Ohm from the metal base of the spark plug to ground. Have your assistant grab the cylinder head and move around. Ohms? Variation?

answer: .00 constant with flexing...we even used an ax handle to pry on the engine in the frame to check for changes.. my idea was the time I jacked it up and when I let it down it wouldn't spark... I honestly thought you were on to something here, Ken! LOL

1B. With leads positioned as in 1A try to find the engine ground wire and flex it.Variation?

answer: .00 constant w/ flexing
__________________________________________________ ___________________


2. The black/yellow wire must be high. To troubleshoot unplug black/yellow connector at CDI, connect test leads from harness side of wire to neg terminal of batt. With ignition on( don't start engine) you should read infinite, when off or kill switch on reading should be 0 ohms.

Answer: How many ohms with kill switch in run position? .00
How much variation when flexed? no change when flexed
With ignition on meter read 0.L (overload....is this the same as infinite?)

You reported .002 ohms? Be careful if your meter is autoranging that it is still in the ohms scale and not kohms. I took it out of auto range, and I hope this is the right range that I am using now.

__________________________________________________ ______________________



3. The white/blue wire must have continuity to the coil (from CDI).

How many ohms across coil (black/white to white/blue) at coil. Has continuity
How many ohms from cdi white/blue wire (harness side) to ground? .0L
How much variation when wires flexed? no variation
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. N.A.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
5. Forget this one for now, since they have replaced it already.
The black and the blue (pink and brown at the CDI) from the magneto need to put out voltage.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

6. Forget this one for now. The black/red and green (brown and green at CDI) need to put out a pulse from the pick up.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7. Check continuity on wires between pick up to CDI and magneto and CDI(flex wire and monitor reading). Also ohm each wire to ground. (neg batt terminal). See # 5 and 6 for colors.

Pink and brown(2 wires) at cdi should be black and blue(2 wires) in the harness.

I honestly don't understand how to hook up the test probes for this ohms test. I did, however, check the continuity and it was present on all the wires.

Ken, I hope I am using this tester correctly. I took it out of auto ranging and zeroed out before each ohms test.

Also, as I said before... the ATV has been starting quite well lately. I had a hunch about when my reverse light quit, and when the no spark condition started. Now, mind you, this all happened a few years ago, but IF I remember correctly, it all started around the same time. I had a chance to purchase a reverse switch, so I bought and installed it. The bike has been starting, but this has happened before. Perhaps it is a coinkydink???? Remember, I had the stator rebuilt and it ran fine for 4 months before it started this no spark garbage again. My question to you...... could the neutral switch have anything to do with this problem?

Any help appreciated, and thanks for the help given so far! :-)
Jackie
 
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Old Aug 4, 2009 | 11:01 PM
  #37  
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0. If you are still in a no start condition you can unplug (if you can unplug only this wire) the black yellow at the CDI and try to start, if it does start use your gas shutoff to stop engine. It will take a few minutes.

Did you try this?
Answer: Seems to me I tried this when the quad wouldn't start one time and it made no difference.

A.A If you're not sure then let's try it again.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. The black/white wire must be grounded. Break the connection at the CDI and ohm from there to the neg battery terminal.(flex wire and monitor reading)

1. Answer: How many ohms? .00 ohms and never changed when flexing the wires
How much variation when flexed? NADA
------------------------------------------------------------------------
1A. Ohm from the metal base of the spark plug to ground. Have your assistant grab the cylinder head and move around. Ohms? Variation?

answer: .00 constant with flexing...we even used an ax handle to pry on the engine in the frame to check for changes.. my idea was the time I jacked it up and when I let it down it wouldn't spark... I honestly thought you were on to something here, Ken! LOL

1B. With leads positioned as in 1A try to find the engine ground wire and flex it.Variation?

answer: .00 constant w/ flexing
__________________________________________________ ___________________


2. The black/yellow wire must be high. To troubleshoot unplug black/yellow connector at CDI, connect test leads from harness side of wire to neg terminal of batt. With ignition on( don't start engine) you should read infinite, when off or kill switch on reading should be 0 ohms.

Answer: How many ohms with kill switch in run position? .00


How much variation when flexed? no change when flexed
With ignition on meter read 0.L (overload....is this the same as infinite?)

A.A. Kinda, see below.


You reported .002 ohms? Be careful if your meter is autoranging that it is still in the ohms scale and not kohms. I took it out of auto range, and I hope this is the right range that I am using now.

A.A. What range were you using? If it was in the 20 ohm scale you will O.L. at 21 Ohms. Resistance could be 21 Ohms to 100 trillion Ohms. If it was in the 20 Meg scale you would see 0 ohms for your wires and no variation (kinda like you did) You should stay in autorange but watch the scale.


__________________________________________________ ______________________



3. The white/blue wire must have continuity to the coil (from CDI).

How many ohms across coil (black/white to white/blue) at coil. Has continuity


How many ohms from cdi white/blue wire (harness side) to ground? .0L

A.A .0L?????

How much variation when wires flexed? no variation
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. N.A.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
5. Forget this one for now, since they have replaced it already.
The black and the blue (pink and brown at the CDI) from the magneto need to put out voltage.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

6. Forget this one for now. The black/red and green (brown and green at CDI) need to put out a pulse from the pick up.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7. Check continuity on wires between pick up to CDI and magneto and CDI(flex wire and monitor reading). Also ohm each wire to ground. (neg batt terminal). See # 5 and 6 for colors.

Pink and brown(2 wires) at cdi should be black and blue(2 wires) in the harness.

I honestly don't understand how to hook up the test probes for this ohms test. I did, however, check the continuity and it was present on all the wires.

Ken, I hope I am using this tester correctly. I took it out of auto ranging and zeroed out before each ohms test.

Also, as I said before... the ATV has been starting quite well lately. I had a hunch about when my reverse light quit, and when the no spark condition started

Now, mind you, this all happened a few years ago, but IF I remember correctly, it all started around the same time. I had a chance to purchase a reverse switch, so I bought and installed it. The bike has been starting, but this has happened before. Perhaps it is a coinkydink???? Remember, I had the stator rebuilt and it ran fine for 4 months before it started this no spark garbage again.

A.A. How long does it usually run fine?


My question to you...... could the neutral switch have anything to do with this problem?

A.A. The neutral indicator light switch controls the neutral light and the ground to the coil of the neutral relay. In other words it could only affect power to the starter motor.


Note: I labeled my responses A.A. (answer to answer) for ease of finding.

Good night
Ken



 
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Old Aug 5, 2009 | 07:36 PM
  #38  
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I don't know about you, Ken, but I need a few days off from this ATV problem. How about I back up and regroup then post more results in a few days? I'm about ready to toss a match on this thing! Besides, I have yard work that I have been neglecting for some time.

It has been starting perfectly for about a week now. My nephew took it into the woods to ride a trail and must have restarted it 30 times w/o a problem. (But he did manage to break the parking cable... UGH!)

I'll try to answer a question that You asked earlier:
The plug wire cam with the new coil if I remember correctly.

I'm going to study the owners manual to the tester to see if I am using it properly before I redo all these tests.

Oh, I have another nonelectrical question for you:
Is there any kind of lubricant that I can use on my CV boots to keep them from drying out anymore?

Thanks for everything (especialy your patience!)
Jackie
 
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Old Aug 6, 2009 | 12:22 AM
  #39  
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I don't know about you, Ken, but I need a few days off from this ATV problem. How about I back up and regroup then post more results in a few days? I'm about ready to toss a match on this thing! Besides, I have yard work that I have been neglecting for some time.

Sounds good to me!

It has been starting perfectly for about a week now. My nephew took it into the woods to ride a trail and must have restarted it 30 times w/o a problem. (But he did manage to break the parking cable... UGH!)

I'll try to answer a question that You asked earlier:
The plug wire cam with the new coil if I remember correctly.

I'm going to study the owners manual to the tester to see if I am using it properly before I redo all these tests.

Your readings may be ok. Plus the multimeter I have experience with is more accurate than what most people use, so maybe I'm looking for too much.

Oh, I have another nonelectrical question for you:
Is there any kind of lubricant that I can use on my CV boots to keep them from drying out anymore?

Sorry, no idea.

Thanks for everything (especialy your patience!)

No problem.

Jackie
 
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Old Sep 4, 2009 | 12:28 PM
  #40  
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Cool You still here, Ken??????

Hey Ken,

I cannot believe it has been a MONTH! I fully intended on getting back here in a few days, possibly a week! (Personal problems have kept me away.)

Anyway, the ATV has been running fine all summer. Yesterday it wouldn't start again, but fired right up this morning when I needed it to haul some firewood. When I put it back in the shed, I turned to key off and the bike kept running! I pulled the key out and it kept putting along. Okay, now...... It had a starting problem, now it has a shutting off problem! LOL! I pulled the switch apart and it still ran. I had to pull the plug wire to shut it down! Could the ignition switch be the problem???? Unfortunately, I dropped the back end of the switch (with the contacts exposed) and it hit the regulator/rectifier, and I heard an electrical snap... GASP! Did this external power fry the regulator?

Is there a way I can wire in a toggle switch in lieu of this keyed switch?

GGGRRRRrrrrrrr

Any help would be appreciated
Jackie
 
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