In a shootout like that, the 4 strokes would win...probably the C-dale. Not because they're better but because the magazines have to promote what's being sold NOW. It would be a biased, staged event to get people into them. Take a good look at mags that cover races. Ever notice that they POINT OUT that team Cannondale/Nac's "MADE A GOOD SHOWING" or something like "...grabbed 3rd or 4th aboard his SPEED or MOTO"....while they say nothing of the winner's machines (because it's a 2 stroke). That's it. The mags know what people really think but they also know what they have to do. In time, more and more 4 strokes will make impressive power and they'll be there to tell us all about (hell, they'll even exagerate some crap) and they'll become more "hush hush" about 2 strokes. This trend will not end, but only get worse. Govenment Led Conspiracy...that's the bottom line.

 

Good post truckracer! I had that mag at one time.....Notice the Banshee ran 77......now it only runs around 71-72 (what we read anyway)...whats up with that?

 

Another thing the speeds show is how detuned the lt500 was stock. 2 mph over the Banshee and just 3 blinks faster through a quarter.

 

zukiscott, you say that the 4 strokes are catching up, but they are not. When they build a 250cc 4 stroke that puts out 45-55 hp then they have caught up, stuffing a bigger motor into a small frame is not high tech. Do the math and you will see there isn't much of a difference. An old 200x put out 14 hp, a new 400ex put out 28, exactly twice as much for an engine exaclty twice as big. A raptor and DS put out about 40 hp with an engine more than 3 time the size, 3 x 14 = 42. I'm not impressed. The cannondale and maybe the z400 will prove me wrong I hope. The new thumpers are light years aheads of the old 4 strokes but still no match cc to cc for two strokes. I think the only real new 4 stroke technology is making the engines lighter because with the exception of the Cdale the HP isn't all that great. Imagine the kind of power a 660 two-stroke could produce.

 

I prefer 2 strokes, but 4 strokes are catching up. The 400EX engine is stone age and the Raptor is very detuned, making them bad examples. The Honda CRF450R on the other hand.... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

But, the question is, why is smaller better? why must four strokes have 250cc/50hp? You should be looking at how much hp there is, and not hp/liter. Hp/litre does NOT matter. So what if 4 strokes need double the cubes? That's like saying 2 strokes are worse because they need tuned pipes to make so much power... It doesn't matter.

 

I'm not saying smaller is better, actually for some thing it is (revs out quicker) but making an engine bigger is not high performance. To say that fourstrokes are catching up is kind of misleading. Have you seen some of the hp modern day two stroke snowmobiles are making?

 

With so much hype about atvs having so much hp & not making the grade, I'm truly thinking about getting a dirtbike. Anyone out there with...lets say...a YZF426/CR450 give me some input on how bad they smoke atvs!!!! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

You'll smoke them bad but they have a steep learning curve.

 

<< zukiscott, you say that the 4 strokes are catching up, but they are not. When they build a 250cc 4 stroke that puts out 45-55 hp then they have caught up, stuffing a bigger motor into a small frame is not high tech. Do the math and you will see there isn't much of a difference. An old 200x put out 14 hp, a new 400ex put out 28, exactly twice as much for an engine exaclty twice as big. A raptor and DS put out about 40 hp with an engine more than 3 time the size, 3 x 14 = 42. I'm not impressed. The cannondale and maybe the z400 will prove me wrong I hope. The new thumpers are light years aheads of the old 4 strokes but still no match cc to cc for two strokes. I think the only real new 4 stroke technology is making the engines lighter because with the exception of the Cdale the HP isn't all that great. Imagine the kind of power a 660 two-stroke could produce. >>



I am totally with you on this one![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

You AND 2stroke4ever have hit the nail on the head!

Sure the newer 4-strokes are getting better, and more sophisticated, but like was said before, 4-strokes have a LONG way to go before they can put out the kind of horsepower that a 2-stroke is capable of!

My 250R is currently putting out close to 50RWHP (not measured at the crank, but at the rear wheels).
I don't know of any 250 4-stroke that even comes CLOSE to this! Mind you, this is from a 14 yr old quad.

I still say its pretty sad when a 660 4-stroke can get whooped by a 2-stroke with almost 1/3 the displacement.
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]

 

Well, guys, all I can say is that it's nice to see such common sense truth spoken out in the open. Too bad it's confined to a forum that only some of us will ever see. I swear, it almost seems taboo or something to give 2 strokes some press in today's quad magazines...even in ATV SPORT magazine!!!(dedicated to sport/high performance ATVs and racing...for crying out loud!) But like I said before: It's a government-led conspiracy and those spineless magazines supply the propaganda.

In a way I don't blame them. After all, since almost all quads bought nowadays are fourstrokes, it's reasonable to assume that majority of readers younger guys who: A. own thumpers B. have never owned a buzzbomb and C. will NEVER own a buzzbomb (maybe because they're &quot;old and beat up&quot;...WHATEVER) and D. and most importantly: probably don't even REMEMBER 2 strokes!. Anyway, so all the &quot;rumors&quot; they may hear about the original racers are just that...RUMORS...and have no real bearing on reality.

Hell, I've tried! I've written several emails to ATV Sport's editor, a guy in his early 30s, asking why they don't do articles on 2 strokes...Some nice technical articles or modified shootouts btween the 250s or with 330 kits, testing aftermarket parts and modified ATVs..what works well? what doesn't? what's a better pipe for X-model ATV? FMF, DG or procircuit? how do the new powerbands they produce compare? what companies have the best products for this or that model? best value for shocks for woods riding? racing? Best mods for under $100. UNDER $200? Best set up for a quadracer, 250R or Tecate 4 with a $600 budget. Does this or that product work best for the Tecate 4? but what about the Quadracer? a 250R w/Houser Racing products vs. an R modified by LRD racing with their new alluminum &quot;attitude&quot; frame and adjustable pipe and other mods...whose stuff is better? why? who gives more bang for the buck?

You get the picture. they'd make great articles, wouldn't they??!! I'd read every word! they'd answer a lot of questions. stop us from wasting money on bad stuff. Bring new hot items to end user quicker. make us more knowledgable about what's available make aftermarket parts makers tryn harder with better quality and more wary about selling subpar stuff. help us tune our machines to our needs more easily with le$$ trial and error..for racing and recreation alike!

Oh, but wait! The idea is to promote (pump up) the new line of thumpers and explain how to use a manual clutch (pathetic). I got so excited, I almost forgot.