My sentiments exactly, Slinger. That other engine sounds like I'm getting ready to mow the lawn or something.

 

<< I must be goofy, I actually like mixing my gas. I feel like Dr. Frankenstein and I just woke the blue and yellow monster up. The smell of the exhaust, the ring-ting-tingly sound, the muted screams of those people I pass on the highway. I love 2 strokes.

Raptor? Never heard of it. >>



I couldnt have said it better, slinger. That was beautifull.

-Matt

 

You can compare a 2 stroke and a 4 stroke of equivalent size but 4 stroke would have to be capable of drawing in the same amount of air as the 2 stroke. This could be done in several ways. One way would be to rev the 4 stroke roughly twice as high as the 2 stroke. The other would be to use forced air induction like a supercharger or a turbocharger. There are a few kits out there to put turbos on 400exs and raptors that actually show this to be true but it would be cost prohibitive for a factory quad to do this when 2 strokes are far more cost effective or just increasing the displacement of the 4 stroke machine to yield simalar results.

 

2-strokes are fun, yes. 2-strokes are fast, yes. I can understand why many people love their dear 2-strokes. But here are a couple points for the people who repeat arguments for why their 2 strokes are better than 4-strokes.

1) "It's not fair to compare a 250cc engine (2st) with a 450cc engine (4st). That is like comparing a 4-cylinder and a V-8. You have to compare like-sized engines."

RUBBISH! When you compare a 4 and 8 cylinder you are talking about similar engines. Same as comparing a 400ex and ds650 engine. When you are comparing apples to apples you SHOULD take displacement into consideration. My apple tastes better than your apple.

But 2 strokes and 4 strokes are absolutely different types of engines. This is like comparing a turbocharged, intercooled 2 liter 4 cylinder with a new Corvette V-8. They are completely different. They may make similar power, but you can't say that the turbo 4 is better than the V-8 just because it is smaller and lighter. My orange tastes better than your apple. That is not a valid argument. It is simply a matter of taste.

2) "250Rs are cheaper to build and make go fast than a new 4 stroke"

Again another invalid argument. That is true, but you can't use that for the basis of an argument that 2-strokes are better. Going back to cars, you can buy a new Corvette for $45000, or a '70s vette for $10000 and put a $15000 700hp 540cc big-block in it. Of course the older, used, hopped up vette will win in a drag race. It is the nature of commerce for older models to be much less $ to build and modify.

3) "You don't see Raptors and DS650s winning MX races"

True, but it is not because of the engine. It is because they are tall and heavy and don't corner as well as the smaller framed 250s. This will all change with the arrival of the Yamaha YFZ 450. It is lower, wider and lighter than the Raptor. It will be one of the most powerful quads ever built. It will have over 40HP and with the kick-start kit will weigh less than 340 pounds.

4) I don't even need to mention maintenance or ease of use. Mixing gas, fouled plugs, replacing the top end, yada, yada, yada . . .

I can't wait to hear the ignorant ones tell me to go back to the Yamaha forum where I belong. Who will be the first?

RR1

 

1986Suzuki Quadracer-- It does matter that a four stroke needs more cubes, for a very good reason



If your racing, a big thing to think about is weight to horsepower comparison, its not real fun to be pulling a heavy quad out of mud and ruts, trying to sail over jumps with a tank isn't much fun either. take a look at a honda 400Ex compared to a lt500. The LT weighs in at about 390 lbs, the 400ex---about 374, ok so the LTweighs 16lbs more--not all that much, especially when you look at the hp difference (29hp-51hp). This is just an example I personally wouldn't be racing either of these quads (because of the weight), but if I had to choose, I'm pretty sure I'd take that 51hp over 16 less pounds and only 29hp. Just something to think about

 

This is something that i think about a lot. I have a 4 stroke a kfx400. In my opinion the canondales the the z and kfx are the best 4 strokes today. Still yet no matter what a 4 stroke can never have the power of a 2 stroke, its just as simple as that. there will never be a 250 4 stroke with as much power as a 250 2 stroke. It take almost twice as much displacement for a 4 stoke to have the power of a 2 stroke. A lot of the people love the 660 raptor and own them but personally I think it was the biggest disapointment in 4 strokes today. With that much displacement it should be spanking the cannondales,predators and Z's badly. Also i see a huge 700cc thats shaft driven and automatic and being called a sport quad. It looks to me like the 4 stroke industry isnt going uphill, at least not that fast anyways. and yamaha should really update the banshee. Its a great quad and i think should have atleast been updated by now. If yamaha would just give the banshee better suspension and maybe even change somethin about the look to get peoples attention i think the 2 strokes would come back to life. If one company would do this all would probably follow, but somebodys gotta step up. I dont see why it hasnt been done. If there are gonna be 2 stroke dirtbikes there should be 2 stroke quads. Honda is in a big slump right now. If they brought out a 2 stroke quad it would also change the industry. If the 2 strokes dont make another run i atleast hope that the cannondales and Z's keep getting better. Id really like to hear about someone who own one of the new yfz 400s. It sounds good but yamaha has also got a bad habbit of slappin that big CC name on there to make it sound good and not backin it up in my opinion.

 

They are tall and heavy because of their engines...

Put 15 years of developpement into those 250s and they wouldnt weigh 340lbs but more like 300lbs...

The last i heard Honda was recommending a top end check every 20hrs of use for their CRF 450...

Any dyno charts to show us?

 

Some of these posts are just too involved. I think I'll go outside and ride...................