BarelyLegal-I don't know?? Last night I tried some technical trail riding on the Z. This is pick your way through the big rocks kind of stuff. The engine stalled often!! They obviously put a light dirt bike fly wheel on this thing. THE ENGINE JUST REFUSES TO LUG DOWN!! It's no fun to have to ride a 4-stroke reved out and slipping the clutch, like you would have to do with a Banshee or 250R. The 400EX on the other hand, will just idle through this kind of stuff.

As for hill climbing, I am disapointed here also!! There is a big rutted hill with a fairly soft surface that I climb all the time, and the 400EX goes up it easily in 2nd gear. The Z however bogs and complains in 2nd, and is fighting to make the climb. The hill can't be climbed in 1st, because you wouldn't have enough momentum to make it. It just doesn't have the low end grunt to do the hill with any authority. (I'm thinking part of this may be the stock tires????). So, I have to ride the Z reved out, and it just spins its tires harmlessly wasting a lot of power. But, on fire roads where I can ride it reved out, the Z is great!!

Last weekend I met a bunch of guys (the parts guys from a local dealership!!) on the trail who were riding DRZ400 dirt bikes. One guy was also a Z400 owner!! They all emphatically agreed with me about the power characteristics of this engine!!! I don't know what everybody in this forum is use to riding. Maybe nobody has a clue what real lug it down low end power is?????

 

Everybody wants to put the 400EX down raving about the Ruptor and the Cannibal? Numbers do not lie sure the 400EX is down on power but a few mods and you can get some usable power out of it. Notice I said usable how many people fly through the woods in 6th gear on there Ruptors? I race in the the GNCC Cross Country series take a look at what is at the top of the Pro Production Class not a Ruptor not or a Cannibal. I do see alot of the Cannibal's on the side of the track broke down seems that can not seem to quit breaking down???? You can't win if you can't finish. The Ruptor is more reliable but still can not take a win with all that power? The 400EX even down on all its power has won every Pro Production class race this year 9 so far with three differant winners in the class all on the 400. The 400EX has won all 9 Races in the 4 Stroke Mod class this year and has had six differant winners all on 400's. Todd Knippenburg is riding his 400EX in the Pro Class against all the aftermarket chassis against Lonestar's, Roll's etc and is ranked 7th overall in the class not one RUPTOR OR CANNIBAL. The Closest Cannodale in the Pro class is Tyson Thomas ranked 11th after 9 races. The top 10 in the 4 stroke C class are all on 400's. It just goes to show numbers don't lie check the race results that will show you the better quad sure it is down a little on power but how many of you motor heads know how to use the power other than in an a striaght line?

 

Raptor is a 5-speed. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] (forward gears at least)
Sorry.... i had too.

 

Actually, the motor on the Dale's have proved to be pretty damn reliable. There have been a couple of bad motors that have been released, but Cannondale has replaced them at no cost to the customer. If you say you've seen a lot of Cannibals and they're all broken down on the track, I would have a hard time believing you. I've noticed people like to exaggerate on these forums a lot. You probably consider a bent wheel, or flat tire as a "break down" right? Or you see one quad on the side of the track and you automatically think, "Gawd, those Cannondale's ALWAYS break down."

I don't know why so many people have something against Cannondales. Even if I didn't own one, I would have respect for any company that actually SUPPORTS ATV's.

The 400ex was a good quad but it's time to move on people. There is nothing that the 400ex has, that the Z400 doesn't have except for a stronger axle. You can put a bunch of money into a 400ex but it still won't be close to the others unless you go with a 440 kit w/ all the works, but than there goes your reliability. It's starting to get sad seeing all these guys just clinging to the 400ex, and acting like it's the quad that started everything. It's like yall are in your one little worlds.

 

Yes, the 400EX was the king of going slow, no one will argue that. The 400EX has been out for years, and has a flood of aftermarket support, and untill very recently was the only truly good handling quad for that slow stuff. With 400cc you move the power up slightly in the band to gain more total HP, nothing new here. The modded 400EX's lose some bottom end for the extra power in the mid and top. This is all HP 101.
The fact of the matter is, the Z400 has about the best spread of power and mix of both worlds that you can do with 400cc. And Im fairly certain that the 400EX is going to be giving up some of those wins real soon, bet on it.
the Z400 is NOT A BRIGGS AND STRATTON LAWN MOWER! Its a modern free spinning, high HP ATV. With a motor that you can nail wide open from almost an idle in third gear, and it'll launch like a bullet. If you're constantly stalling it? Not sure what to tell ya on that one. I have an idea, but you probably won't want to hear it.
If you're truly that unhappy with it, sell it.
Nothing worse than owning a quad you do not like.
This whole thing realy boils down to 400EX owners that used to have the best 400cc bike you could buy. Times have changed, deal with the future or cling to the past, your choice.
In a couple years it looks like the 400EX will basically be the 300EX of now.

 

As for the comments on the pro atv four stroke class Jeremy Shell is the new world champion and he rides a Cannondale Speed. As for using them on the trails I would rather have the Z over the Cannon but if I raced I wouldn't even have to think about it. Cannon all the way. The Raptor has absolutely nothing over the Z400 in the woods and on tight trails. Yes it's faster at wide open throttle and in the dunes but in the woods or at least in the woods I ride in it has nothing over the Z except for a higher price tag. To me it would depend on what type of trails you will be riding. If it's mainly open trails and gravel roads you might prefer the Raptor. I would ride both or go riding with friends that have both. I put quite a bit of seat time in on a Raptor and decided that buying the Z for 5099.00 out the door was a better deal for me. I still think the Raptor is a nice quad and if I lived near the dunes or more open areas I would consider one. The 400EX although a very nice quad is behind the times when it comes to liquid cooling and reverse and the Z handles every bit as good as the EX. As you can tell I'm not brand loyal at all and may even consider selling the Z to purchase a Predator if they turn out to be a nice quad. I prefer to support American jobs and not overseas jobs when I have the chance.

 

I am not sure about Jeremy being the World Champion and if he is it is not in the GNCC series that would be the GNC series. As for the guy saying knocking Cannondale I am not knocking them it is a simple fact Cannondale does have some motor issues and no I am not talking breaking down as a bent rim or flat tire I am talking trannys broke and blown motors. Everyone tries to take there shots at the 400 by name calling it is just a 300EX now or a real origanal one calling the motor a Briggs and stratton? Numbers do not like 85% of people who have quads ride them on trails. The GNCC brings it all in one Motorcross flat track woods all in one lap it test every aspect of a quad. Kory Ellis is one of the greatest GNC riders year in and out yet he is sitting in 14th in points in the Pro Production class in the GNCC on his CANNONDALE! The Raptor was supposed to knock the 400EX off the podium why hasn't it happened it has tons of power? Why has the Cannondale not knocked the 400EX of the podium at the GNCC's it has tons more power than that old Briggs and Stratton powered 400? The new Z is going to be good but is not yet proven?

MX Dale not in my own little world just follow the facts go to gnccracing.com and check the finishes out. I guess those people on those 400's taking the podiums must be in there own little world!

Megacrash Don't know what you are talking about refering to stalling? As for being unhappy not at all still love my 400 and no I am not stuck in the past and when something is proven better and is a proven winner your Damn right I will step up but not until then.

It all seems just to funny to me that a slow out of date quad is still beating all these high powered Raptor's and Cannondale's numbers do not lie!

 

<< I am not sure about Jeremy being the World Champion and if he is it is not in the GNCC series that would be the GNC series. As for the guy saying knocking Cannondale I am not knocking them it is a simple fact Cannondale does have some motor issues and no I am not talking breaking down as a bent rim or flat tire I am talking trannys broke and blown motors. Everyone tries to take there shots at the 400 by name calling it is just a 300EX now or a real origanal one calling the motor a Briggs and stratton? Numbers do not like 85% of people who have quads ride them on trails. The GNCC brings it all in one Motorcross flat track woods all in one lap it test every aspect of a quad. Kory Ellis is one of the greatest GNC riders year in and out yet he is sitting in 14th in points in the Pro Production class in the GNCC on his CANNONDALE! The Raptor was supposed to knock the 400EX off the podium why hasn't it happened it has tons of power? Why has the Cannondale not knocked the 400EX of the podium at the GNCC's it has tons more power than that old Briggs and Stratton powered 400? The new Z is going to be good but is not yet proven?

MX Dale not in my own little world just follow the facts go to gnccracing.com and check the finishes out. I guess those people on those 400's taking the podiums must be in there own little world!

Megacrash Don't know what you are talking about refering to stalling? As for being unhappy not at all still love my 400 and no I am not stuck in the past and when something is proven better and is a proven winner your Damn right I will step up but not until then.

It all seems just to funny to me that a slow out of date quad is still beating all these high powered Raptor's and Cannondale's numbers do not lie! >>




Ok, you've got a point there. I haven't looked into GNCC racing because I'm not really interested in it. I'm sure GNCC is very demanding but I'm just a motocross junkie. And in the MX world, the Cannondale is the only quad that has gotten (and is getting) close to replacing the legendary 250R's (in the pro ranks). You won't see many (if any) Pro GNC riders on 400ex's, and infact, you will barely see any on 250R's. It may have the R frame but that doesn't make it a R. If I was a trail riding kind of guy, I would be on a EX, Z400, or Raptor because the Dale's just seem to be a handful on the tight trails (which may be the reason you don't see the Dales doing to good in the GNCC's). I guess we were just on two different tracks (hehe, litterally [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]) because you are right about the stats when in comes to XC, but the Cannondale's are making their mark in MX and there is NO denying that.

 

khaynes74, not sure why you mentioned the stalling issue back as if I singled you out, it was yzguy that complained he was unable to keep the motor running on the trail. If you actually read me post you would see me PRAISING the 400EX at going slow, its the king. But trail rideing has more to offer then being the fastest when the race pace slows down to 3 MPH.
My analogy of the 400EX motor being closer to a Briggs and Stratton engine then a Z400 engine is fairly honest. Line the three engines next to each other and ask a mechanic which two are most closely related, and the answer will be the Briggs and Stratton and the 400EX. Truth, deal with it.
As far as the raceing results, I realy could not care less, but the fact of the matter is that the Raptor is not good at going slow, and the Cannondale has had growing pains. If you watch the outcome next year as closely as you did this year, let me know how it comes out, honestly.
My guess is that the Cannondales will start to dominate shortly, closely followed by the Z400, then a couple die hard 400EX's.
And to finish, the 400EX's that are winning. What is the exact percent of Honda parts on the Quad as it finishes the race? My guess would be a lot less then 100.
Line all 4 machines up on the start line, all full stock. Place a Pro on the 400EX, and slightly less qualified drivers on the other three. There is nearly a ZERO chance that the 400EX will win. Another truth.
Sorry you took such offence to me stateing the obvious. I'll try not to do it in the future. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]

 

ok look im only 13 and im from louisiana and ive got a yamaha 125 dirt bike it goes kinda fast and i can get everyone from the start but im lookin to move up to an atv and ive narrowed it down to pretty much a raptor quad sport 400z and a cannible 440 the deal with me is that if i save the half the money my dad will fork up the other half and ive got my half for a raptor but im not sure if i want one if i dont get a raptor i will have some raceing stuff in the quad i get but do u think if i put a 440 kit on the quad sport it will hang with the raptor or if i put a 480 kit on the cannible please help me out i will apreciate it