My e-mail is wkelln@ahs.llumc.edu For some reason it isn't showing up on my user profile????

 

You mean with all that big $$$$$$$$$$$ they can't break the 50HP mark???
What a joke!

 

Look who's talking, I could have pushed your quad faster than you rode it Smitty. Maybe with your wife on it , it may see more than half throttle.

 

<< You mean with all that big $$$$$$$$$$$ they can't break the 50HP mark???
What a joke! >>



All out power doesn't make the bike, it may give it an edge. The Z is not a dragster, its a trail rider, MXer, duner(sorta) quad. What it may lack in power it easily conpensates in handling. Also its not all about peak horsepower, its about how much power is across the entire power band. If your 2 stroke peaked at 70hp at 8000 rpm and it had 30 hp at 6000rpm that is not very good, you want it even and smooth not a huge spike, but thats what 2 strokes do, they are cheap horsepower machines that need contanst rebuilds while a 4 stroke is smooth dependable power that lasts a very long time.

 

What the hell have you been smoking bbertram???

&lt;All out power doesn't make the bike, it may give it an edge.&gt;
Does that mean a 50cc moped is a contender too?

&lt;The Z is not a dragster, its a trail rider, MXer, duner(sorta) quad. What it may lack in power it easily conpensates in handling.&gt;

Definately not a dragster, okay on the trail rider, marginal on the MXer and should not be classified as a duner... Handling is only one variable, and you assume the others don't handle?? You have alot to learn.

&lt;Also its not all about peak horsepower, its about how much power is across the entire power band.&gt;
You're getting warmer...

&lt;If your 2 stroke peaked at 70hp at 8000 rpm and it had 30 hp at 6000rpm that is not very good,&gt;
Depends on what you are using it for, don't you think?
My machine peaks at over 70HP at around 6,800 rpm, but still has as much or more bottom end than any 4 stroker... and I haven't spent nearly the $$. (30HP at 2,00rpm is more realistic)
2 strokes can be made to run 'pipey' like you mention (And most hill shooter Banshees do) but again... it depends on your application... That's the beauty of a 2 stroke, the options list for modifications is huge.

&lt;you want it even and smooth not a huge spike, but thats what 2 strokes do, they are cheap horsepower machines that need contanst rebuilds while a 4 stroke is smooth dependable power that lasts a very long time.&gt;

Cheap horsepower machines? Constant Rebuilds? Dude!? WTF??
I suppose if absolutely NO maintenance occurred, the 4 stroker would most definately outlive the 2... but I ran my stock piston 12 years before I decided it was time for a refresh (It didn't fail, It was my decision for the refresh)... That isn't dependable?
I've yet to be towed back to camp!, but I have towed many others.

I will admit that a 2 stroke needs more maintenace... and that pinheads who can't figure this out should own a 4 stroke so they can claim they are more reliable.
(Smooth dependable power, just not nearly as much of it!)

I'm not bashing the Z here... It's all about personal preference. What works for you, doesn't work for everybody. My post simply commented on the fact that it takes big $$$ to make little HP gains with a 4 stroke.. To me this is unacceptable! That is why I ride antique machines and will continue to do so AS LONG AS THE WEAK KNEE'D MANUFACTURERS CONTINUE TO BOW DOWN TO THE ENVIRO ***** AND ATTORNEYS... INSTEAD OF FORGING AHEAD WITH MODERN TECHNOLOGY OF A 2 STROKE VARIETY.
I WANT A FULL RACE QUAD!!!!! NOT A SPORT QUAD!

Nuff Said!

 

What you said is true, but I didn't talk about a 50cc moped, I was talking about the Z, the topic of our discussion. It seems to me that when you add a whole bunch of power to a quad you need to bump up the handling to compensate for it. The chassis was not meant to handle that kind of power, so you need to spend extra cash on extended a-arms, wider axle, better shocks, you need to add that to the price as well. So if you take a stock banshee and give it 70 hp what would happen, the rider would be in trouble. The 4 stroke will not be as wild and be tamer in the powerband and not need as many chassis upgrades as the 2 stroke. But the 2 stroke will will out handle and out power the 4 stroke for the same money, because it costs alot more for the 4 stroke to mod the motor and the difference in dollar to the 2 stroke you can get your chassis parts.

I say the Z can be a duner, I have never tried the dunes mind you but I have heard good results from Z owners who have, its alot better than the 400ex at dunes.

I think 2 strokes a cheap horse power machines, it doesn't cost nearly as much to mod the motor of a 2 than a 4 stroke, that is what I meant, I didn't mean cheap pieces of crap. You need to rebuild a 2 stroke about every 2 years right? Thats what I hear from alot of people, I guess if you don't race them maybe 3 years but a 4 stroke would last atleast twice as long as a 2 stroke. Maintenace will always prevent damage to the motor but a 2 stroke seems to need rebuilds alot more than 4 strokes, that is what I read on the forums anyways.

Anyways for my final statement I would like to say, I love my Z and its fun as hell. I don't like 2 stroke motors myself and I don't mind paying for HP even if it means paying double the price of a 2 stroke. 2 strokes stink, no really they do, that cloud of blue smoke behind you, that stuff smells. I know I know the new 2 strokes don't stink but they make so much more polution than a 4 stroke, no if, ands or buts about it. When you burn oil and gas you make more polution than just burning gas. Thats also another reason why I like my 4 stroke, I want my air to be clean, I don't want to live in smog infested climate.

Those are my thoughts. I didn't check my gramar so it might be a little screwed up in places.

 

Brent
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. There's only a couple more things I feel the need to add to this conversation.

#1) I'm pushing the higher HP #'s and have yet felt compelled to upgrade to a wider axle, bigger A-arms, heavier shocks or anything... (I don't ride a banshee either)
But likewise, I'm not a MX'er either. If you push the handling to the limits, then yes... upgrades are probably a good investment... Doesn't matter if we're talking about a Z400 or and EX400 or anything for that matter.

a 70HP banshee will handle just as poorly as a 30HP one.... Point being, if you want the thing to handle, it needs upgrades whether or not it has power. Another variable is rider skills.. I won't go there.

I rebuild my motor when the compression #'s and piston blow by indicates it necessary.. (Every 2 years is a &quot;canned&quot; answer and not accurate IMO)

Now you have forced me into making more ENVIRONEMENTAL statements that tend to offend the ENVIRO-****'s.
First of all, if a 2 stroke is emitting a 'cloud' of smoke... it's not jetted properly! The only time mine will smoke (Very slight) is during a cold start, and it quickly stops.

You're comments about 2 strokes making way more pollution are INACCURATE! You've been listening to the Tree Hugging Sierra Club Enviro **** camp that studied 2 stroke data from the early 70's snowmobiles.
Truth is.. modern technology CAN/COULD make a 2 stroke as clean or cleaner than the 4! Ski-doo is currently working on this.
With today's cleaner burning oils, there have been vast improvements on 2 stroke emissions... so don't just fly off the handle and make such a uneducated statement.
(Perhaps you should look at some of the competitions that are taking place between leading Universities on 2 stroke vs. 4 stroke emissions)
ALL MANUFACTURERS HAVE ABANDONED SHIP, and went to the 4 stroke/more weight/less power technology instead of investing $$$$ on what I Feel is a worthy cause. (Granted, they have made significant improvements in 4 stroke technology also)

I want my air to be clean too! But I also want technology to forge ahead to bring our future generations.

To each their own,

Regards,

 

<< Tree Hugging Sierra Club Enviro **** >>




Thats pretty funny.


I don't have alot of engine knowledge, so I can't really comment on 2 vs 4 strokes. My preference is 4 stroke, its quieter, more fuel effecient and better overall for my style of ridding, I have been raised of 4 strokes, so its obvious I'm going to like them more. I knew you never had a banshee but I just used it as an example.

Also don't you like these arguments where people don't go off talking trash! I like them, I wish most of the this forum would do this, another thing I could vent about but won't.

Take it easy on that 2-stroke and have fun! I'm going riding.

 

Just so you guys know, as soon as my cams and ignition are done I will break the 50hp mark. We are waiting on Web and Dyna right now. I may not have 70+ hp, but get my bike on the track and it wastes almost every bike except the Dales. With the cams and ign. I will have more power.

 

Sounds like that's a pretty wild machine.