Use to be that you could just put a bigger engine in any machine and expect it to be considered the latest and greatest. The state of the art has passed that point now!! Manufacturers can't just keep throwing in bigger motors, and expect everybody to automatically bow down and worship their machine. All the performance bikes now have a REASONABLE amount of power (and you can hop that up to infinity any time you want). THE BOTTOM LINE HAS NOW SHIFTED FROM HORESEPOWER TO HANDLING!! With their resources and money, there is no excuse for any manufacturer to deliver a bike with handling that isn't 99% perfect!!!!

 

Lets cut out all the Missconceptions about the alegged Advertizing Dollar Conspiracy.
Here are the FACTS, Not Guesses, Not Speculation, Not Conjecture, but FACTS about all of these adds from all of the different manufacturers.

Fact 1. All Comparable (Meaning Similar/Same Size) adds are Not the same PRICE.

Example: A 2 page add located on the Inside of the front cover or in the Center of a magazine, is more expensive than a 2 page add on page 96 & 97.

Fact 2. Location of add drasticly effects the price of said add.

Example: An Outter Back cover (1 page) add is more expensive than a 2 page add on page 96 & 97

Fact 3. An Insertion add is one of the Most Expensive adds you can purchase.

Example: The Predator 4 page add (Printed on what appeares to be about 80lb paper) and inserted into the Center of most of the ATV publications a few months back, is BIGTIME $$$$


I just finished looking through several of my Quad magazines that are sitting around in my office and this is what I found.

Jan. Issue ATV Action - Inside Cover 2 page Yamaha Raptor Add, Page 13 Bombardier. That's all!
Jan. Issue Dirt Wheels - Page 8&9 2 page Honda Add, Page 13 Bombardier, Page 46&47 2 page Honda Add, Back Cover Raptor Add. That's all!
ATV Sport Buyers Guide - Page 2&3 2 page Bombardier Add, Page 9 Yamaha Add, Page 13 Yamaha Raptor Add, Page 16&17 2 page Suzuki Add, Center 2 page Polaris Predator Add.

WHERE IS THE CONSPIRACY?????

Now I realize that not everyone agrees with the results of the "Shootouts" and I am not posting this to try and convince anyone that the mags are right in their choices, but this Scape-Goat "Addvertizing Dollars Conspiracy" is just plain rediculus. The Shootouts whether you agree with them or not are not "FIXED" by another tester on the Grassy Knowll. It has become way to easy around here for people to scream Foul, and throw the blame at the mythical Add Money Excuse. This lame excuse is riddled throughout these Forums and is easy pickin when someone is lookin for a reason to discredit anything that they personaly don't agree with.

If you don't agree with the results, convince us with Facts!!! Using the "Evil Corporate Add Dollars" ploy is an insult those of us who are intelegent enough to see through it.

 

Well how about this.

If it's not $s
or corporate influence from the manufacturers

How do you explain some of the bizaare shootouts and some of their statements? Is it possible that they are just lazy and pumping them out to sell issues?

I agree with RaptorRider660r in that specs can be misprinted and that's fine but when that misprinted spec becomes a reason to take away from a machine that's crazy. I'm not the only one on here that thinks the mags are full of crap except for maybe ATV Sport and the theory that everyone is just mad because their quad didn't win doesn't hold water especially if you look at the other threads you and I are involved in. So if you debunk are claims of money and influence how do you explain some of the things we all complain about?

This thread might be a little hot but it's a great debate with no name calling!

 

I got an idea don’t read the magazines.

 

got 2 although I may bail on DW like I did ATVA but I do love ATV Sport. To me I guess the mags are like riding quads in the snow. Compared to dirt riding in snow sucks but it's better than not riding at all. Besides I like the pretty pictures..

 

My explanation would be that people see things different and use different scales of value or performance. It all comes down to personal preference. Maybe the test riders are heavy and a certain machine works to that advantage or maybe they are light and a certain machine works to that advantage. Why do we all buy different quads? Because we all like different things about them, it would be pretty lame if we all had the same quad! I bought a Raptor because I previously owned a LT500. I wanted something with comparable power at the time that left me a choice between a Raptor and a DS 650. Some one else could be used to a 250R and want something lighter and more nimble like a Canondale or LTZ 400. Where I was used to a heavy quad the light weight was not nearly as important to me, but for the other person the heavy bigger quad may feel like a tank. To me the light nimble quad feels like a toy!

Plus there is always the lemon factor, maybe they get a quad with poor suspension or tranny or motor, That may or may not be typical for that model. Some quads have a somewhat stiff transmission or Shocks but after a short breakin period they get much smoother. There are many reasons why there opinions differ on the quads just as we all have differing opinions on which quad is better.


The reason people think it is all bull is because they have beaten this quad or beaten that quad, and felt this ones motor sucked or that suspension was better and that may all be true but that was under completely different circumstances with different riders and different quads set up completely different and then cannot understand why the results are different....lol


I just feel that the above reasons why they pick a winner that you or I do not think is the winner is much more likely than who advertises the most that month!

I would hope that we can all agree that all the new performance quads are pretty darn nice and only getting better!


Nocando

 

I definitely agree with you on the new performance quads thing. I also understand opinions, rider size and what not.

When you get right down to it my beefs are simple.

If there is a shootout with a set criteria to judge by the highest average placed quad in the criteria should win. They made the criteria up so why bail on it.

I feel it is strange when they post an improper spec (C-Dale moto is 46.5" wide) and then use that mistake to detract from the quad. Seriously they said it felt tippy how can that possibly be? It's the 2nd widest quad with the 1st lowest seat hieght and lowest wieght. It just sounds insane to me and I don't even ride one. I also think it would be nuts to think the major manufacturers don't have pull with the mags.

I do however agree with a lot of the stuff you saying it's just tough for me to let go of some of the things I've seen done in these shootouts. It also seems that all these quads that get tore up in the shootouts get a make up article just on them with priase like the Darryl Rath Pred article. I know it's his race bike but I'm just saying.

I also agree on the cost of the Pred advert. It was big $ but I don't see them anymore either the last couple of months have been without them. C-Dale used to also have at least a 1 page add in all the mags and now they are all gone. Honda, Yamaha and the rest keep these adds going year in and year out with more of them in the summer months. I think it would be hard to believe the can be totaly objective when a lot of people think Consumer Reports is biased and they don't take advertisements from any of the companies whose products they test just to prove it.

I am enjoying this post it is a great debate and you guys are excellent advercaries whether we agree or not it's good to go add with intelligent members who contribute to the forums.

I got to go until the next round.
Diggler

 

the shoot outs i see that the z wins are usually saying they would choose it over the others for it's low price thats sad! if the atv is $1.00 or $1,000,000 that should not be a deciding factor in a shoot out! also the z would cost more if they would build it so it would last at least the first year or month even!!!!!!!!

 

Cost is important to a lot of a people but if your shooting out performance then shoot out performance. They ragged the Alba moto for it's price but it's Cannondale's most expensive quad they could have put dune tires, exhuast, graphics kit and tag bars on a Cannibal and it wouldn't have been a factor. I think it the end you could say if cost is a factor this might be the best high performance bike for you or if your new to high performance this quad might be best for you. That I could understand.

 

DirtDiggler, I agree with you on that Alba shootout, They picked a Moto when they should have picked a cannibal then complained about price yet used cannibal width numbers. I read the article and saw the same discrepancies. I too was not too impressed with the data in that particular article.

This has been a very good discussion. I own a Raptor and it came in dead last but does not bother me in the least. I like my quad and I am very happy with it. As I'm sure I would have been happy with any of the three.

Nocando