I'll admit that I'm a little biased towards two strokes. However, how can anyone say that they are less reliable. Anything with fewer parts will be more reliable in the long run. Four strokes are simply less efficient having valves, cams, etc., etc. Any stock to mildly modified two stroke can run for many hours without replacing the top end on it. If it is heavily modified, granted it will require more maintenace, but so will that modded four stroke! If you really want an application as to how reliable a two stroke can be then think about a 6 cylinder 200 horsepower Mercury Outboard from 1980. That engine is very reliable and trust me, was and is used hard, on water there is no such thing as rolling. But getting back to quads, I've owned two banshees and never had any problems fouling plugs or anything about being as finicky as many have discribed. Synthetic oil is another thing, with synthetic oils there is the possibility of having virtually no smoke! Petroleum oils will definitely make any two stroke smokey. For all of you who enjoy putting around maybe a four stroke is better for you. But keep a banshee in powerband, now that is one hell of a rush! Now I will admit I'm also thinking about getting a new four-stroke, but I wouldn't have to if they updated the banshee as far as suspension and handling. I love that motor, I just wish the quad had the suspension and frame geometry to match the power! Yes, I also ride in the woods, and enjoy riding pretty damn fast, as a matter of fact, I smoked my friend on his Z without a problem. Now you can complain about different riding skills and anything else for that matter, but if you can ride in the right RPM range, the two stroke really hauls. This is just my .02, I realize that there are many other different opinions out there, but I think two strokes deserve some credit. One last final example, why do yamaha and honda both use 450cc four strokes to compete in 250cc motocross? Two strokes make more horsepower per cc. "I guess they really are inefficient" lol

 

One last thing I forgot to add, is everyone really that gas concious? I mean come on, these are quads, they really don't burn that much gas. Does anyone own a pickup truck or suv? I mean they still burn a lot more gas then quads do. For that matter even honda civics burn more gas per mile than a banshee! Once again this topic is open and I don't mean to offend anyone. This is just my opinion.

 

You do know the meaning of the word efficient, right?

Main Entry: ef•fi•cient
Pronunciation: i-'fi-sh&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French or Latin; Middle French, from Latin efficient-, efficiens, from present participle of efficere
Date: 14th century
1 : being or involving the immediate agent in producing an effect <the efficient action of heat in changing water to steam>
2 : productive of desired effects; especially : productive without waste

The “without waste” part would refer to the 2 Stroke using twice the gas as the same horsepower 4 stroke.
Its not a complicated word guys.

There is no way in hell a Banshee gets 35-40 MPG by the way.

2 strokes have only 2 advantages,
(1) Lighter weight for a comparable horsepower 4 stroke (by a tiny margin)
(2) Fewer cc engine able to make the same horsepower (but uses more gas doing it)
That’s it, everything else is in favor of the 4 stroke, or at least that’s how I see the facts.
Prove me wrong.

 

The biggest problem with 2 strokes is the total lack of modern technology. The 2 strokes we see in quads are all 15 year old engines at best.
If Yamaha would work on a modern 350cc 2 stroke twin and incorporate titanium parts, fuel injection and other modern elements into it, they would probably have a real monster on there hands that everyone would want.
But that’s not the case, we are comparing modern 4 strokes to ancient, sloppy, ineffiencient, 15 year old detuned MX engines, the 2 strokes are out classed by a big margin.
I would love to see a modern 2 stroke, but nobody makes one right now, and after 2005 nobody will have the chance to make one.

 

I agree. My 500 with the stock pipe or FMF, smokes only when cold, and once warmed up no smoke what so-ever. this is also the case even going to ST. Anthony's (about 5000 feet higher then here) i lost a lot of power as i didnt re-jet, but still no smoke, and still power whenever i wanted it. also i never have had mine "load up".
i do agree that 4 strokes are better for putting around and trail riding. i would like to get a z-400 as a second bike when i can afford it, but untill then, there's nothing like giving gas and hauling a$$ [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

MergaCrash, you're not a tree hugger, are you? Sounds like a bit of 2-stroke envy you have!
Ok, seriously now. I agree that 4-strokes are being modernized at a rapid rate and that they are making them perform much better, however, the old, outdated MX 2-strokes that you are talking about still perform very well, actually better in my opinion.
I do believe that in the future 4-strokes will perform even better, but it will still have to have a larger displacement than 2-strokes.
As for the jetting issue you were talking about, I just don't see how a 2-stroke is more difficult. You have to jet both properly. Where I live is only about 150 - 200' above sea level with moderate to high temperatures and high humidity, so elevation is not a factor for me. The wintertime down here is the only exception to that, and the humidity drops and so does the temperature, but it is no major difference on jetting. Yes, my quad does run a bit leaner in the wintertime, but I don't keep it so boarderline as to burn it up.

 

I think he is a tree hugger! Sure sounds like he's got alot of the same mis-information that the enviro-****'s do about snowmobiles.

I will agree however, it would be nice to see some modern technology applied to 2-strokes... direct injection would stop any and all B.S. about emissions... because they can be made to burn cleaner than a 4 stroke. (IT's been done!)
A modern day two stroke would absolutely RIP!
We are comparing 15 year old 2-strokers to todays 4 strokes... and yes, todays 4 strokers are way better than the ones of yesteryear... but they still can't compete with the antique 2-strokers...

IF reliability is even part of the discussion.....those who complain have no business aboard a 2-stroke anyway. They are more picky about the state of tune. If you want a 'no-brainer', buy a 4 stroke!
But lets talk about economics here for a minute... while we're beating the 'inefficiency' drum.
If you understood a little about the engineering side of what's going on inside an internal combustion engine... you could clearly see that more power is developed with half as many strokes with less rotating mass... (I'm stopping there as to not bore the majority with any more detail)
Ever had a motor failure on a 4-stroke? It does happen! Compare a catastrophic failure of each, and see what's more expensive to repair!
Which one is more expensive to squeeze more HP out of???
Which one responds better to modifications per each $ spent??

I'll keep my inefficient, hard to maintain, environmentally unfriendly antique!
REFUSE TO SUPPORT THE NEW 4STROKE TECHNOLOGY!!!! Make the manufacturers step up to the plate and build us what we really want!
ANOTHER FULL RACE QUAD!!! ENOUGH WITH THE SPORT MODELS! (You can keep your electric start and reverse!)

I rest my case...

 

The jetting diff w/ 2 strokes is often played out a little more than it needs to be. Yes, 2 strokes are affected much more by slightly changing weather conditions than 4 strokes are. This is why they must be rejetted. But it really doesnt take much once you are used to it, its simply a pain in the butt.

2 strokes make more power/cc, thats just the way it is. But the reason 4 strokes lag so far behind, 2 to 1 to be exact, is because the manufacturers are severely detuning the engines they release, ie, the raptor engine.

4 strokes are typically less maintenance and last for a much longer time before needing to be rebuilt. Not to mention that the electric start nice for us lazy guys!

The reason 2 strokes are so dirty is because of the vast blowby in the cylinder. This can be improved, but no asian or american manufacturer is interested in doing it. Gas Gas, KTM, and others are leading the way in 2 stroke tech, the rest of the world has switched to 4 strokes. EFI will greatly help 4 strokes, but it is in its infancy with the cannondale quads, and because of the bankruptcy, EFI may have been set back even longer.

 

You have to think about if for a second (relating to why 2-strokes use more gas). What is the general rpm range a 2-stroke is ran on? 6-11k normally. What is a 4-stroke usually ran at? A 2-stroke uses the fuel to lubricate the cylinder and your thumpers dont. So, being that the 2-strokes are almost always ran about 6-7k of course they are going to need more fuel. If anybody has half a brain (and most of you have at least half) know that the more rpm's a motor spins the more fuel its going to run.

About the oil, even in cold weather on a cold motor our bikes dont smoke, we run castor 927 in our gas bikes and they never smoke. Our meth bikes smoke pretty good off the line though

 

Ouch!!
That hurt, I’d rather shoot a bleeding heart Liberal then be forced to talk to one, sorry I came across to you as a tree hugging echo ****.
I’m 34 years old and I’ve been in the bike/quad sport for over 25 years now, some of that sanctioned racing. I have more actual seat time on MX bikes then quads, and almost everything I’ve owned has been a 2 stroke. My “envy” as you put it was for a 4 stroke, so I bought one. I’m an engineer by trade and a gear head at heart. My machines operate at there full potential, and that’s why the quirks and shortcomings of my 2 strokes made me wish I had a nice modern 4 stroke. Someone else might not have come to the same conclusion but I did, and love my Z.
I’m not bashing you side of this debate, just supporting mine.
The only thing I did say about 2 stroke production was that I wish it had kept pace with the 4 stroke, so why are you calling me a tree hugger?