Raptor VS Banshee. The banshee wins every time, modified or stock. I have seen it. Raptors are not all that impressive stock. Z400's almost beat them. Like I said, my 86 LT250r would only lag a couple bike lengths behind a Raptor, and I would beat z400s with pipes. Believe me, I would love to get out and ride more, but I live in a city. Not too many places to ride. I occasionally go out into the hills, but for the most part i have to drive 3 hours to Glamis. Also, for a 3 day weekend at Glamis, I only use 6 gallons of gas, if that actually. Usually I have gas left in the tank and can. Your right, being fast is my thing, not grannying it around in the lowend torque band. 4 strokes are good for reliable consistant power, and excellent choices for beginner riders, as well as advanced, but if you are use to a 2-stroke, you can do as much as a 4-stroke can, and in the end, be really fast. Fortunately this has been a good season. Since Nvember, I have been to Glamis 4 times, and pismo once. I would love to get a z400 for my wife, and I want4ed one, but after beating them at Glamis, I decided to hang with the 2-stroke

 

Okay... I'll jump back on this run-away train again...

Emissions.... Do you follow any of the engineering programs at some of the major universities RiverMobster? If so, then you are fully aware of the potential of a clean running 2-stroke... they've done it, and have competitions every year as to which campus can produce the 'cleanest' snowmobile... A two stroker will run cleaner than a 4!!!
I'm really hacked that the manufacturers haven't jumped on this technology!

You can bash all you want about the 'lack' of low end HP on a 2 stroker... but my little 500 has plenty... and even in stock form makes a raptor (mind you 160cc larger in displacement) look like a childs toy.
There is a great deal of fluid dynamics involved in 2-stroke theory, and as to why they are more RPM dependant, along with more difficult for some to understand.
My side of the discussion... I'll complain about the LACK of top end HP on a 4-stroker!! Plenty of low end, not nearly enough top end... which is where I like the power to be!

Will a 4 stroke ever make equivalent power cc vs cc??? NOPE! (Not naturally aspirated) Why don't we see any 2-stroke top fuel dragsters? Good question... I'm thinking that Bang for the buck... nobody has figured out how to do it... However Saab did have a 2-stroke auto, along with Detroit diesel made 2-strokes for years! I get the feeling it's a matter of economics!

Is hill shooting my thing? Yes! along with hill climbing in the dirt! along with trail riding in the Mtns. and a little MX!
Does my 2-stroke do all of these things well? Yes, Very very well... and if I want to smoke a 4-stroke, it only takes a flick of the thumb!

My point: 2-strokes aren't for everyone! But they are the best fit for me (I have no tolerance for a heavy poorly performing machine)
Run what ya brung! and don't whine when I hand you your a$$ when you line up against me!


My $.02

 

Well said duneaddict! Your right on in your observations...its ALL a matter of $$$$!!! All the new R&D is goin into the 4 cycle engine. So thats where all the gains are bein made! To build a 4 stroke...with the power output of a 2 stroke costs lots more money (that was the point i tried to make before). But dont give up on 4 stroke top end power! Ill quote what i was told today...that honda makes a 600cc street bike that has a redline at 16k rpm!!! why dont they put that engine in a quad?? Im guessin cost [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img] So whats the bottom line on the 2 vs 4 stroke engine? Id say $ for $...you get more hp per $ with a 2 stroke. But as far as effency goes...ya get more power (work) per gallon with a four stroke. I like the desert and the woods...so im stickin with my Z [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

Duneaddict,
Good Point.

Rivermobster,
Your right, its all about the $$$$. ..And ride what suits you

 

I smoked a stock banshee and a stock raptor with my slightly modded Alba Z400....all day long. Yeah, yeah......say what you want "yours' modified, the others aren't" so what......the cost of the stock banshee to my alba Z is the same.......i'll take my Z thank you. But you guys are right.....pipe, jet, etc. a banshee and it wakes them up, but then you start getting into the higher $ scene. And yes, the piped banshees out at Superstition last week were getting me up the hills......you simply cannot compete with the modded 2-strokes up hills.

 

yes... i think that itis everyones choice if they want a 2 stroke or a 4.... i love the power that my 250 bring sme.... toses me around but its fun.... i would love to race someone ... but no one around... i wanna drag some raptor down the road... but i dougt it... later

 

I think the torque curve of a 2-stroke is all in how the builder or manufacture sets it up. You can make a 2-stroke have a very straight curve to it (or rather lack there of) and it will be extremely fast. i think some people are too caught up in peak horsepower numbers. You can take a bike with low HP numbers, but realitively high torque numbers and run that bike from 5k to 11k and maintain peak torque and be amazed at how fast it is. Now in that case, there isnt a lack of power whatsoever and pulls all the way through the motors capable rpm range

 

duneaddict got it all well said bro,to who want how they want power,2 stroke is top end power,4 stroke is low end torque,and if you wanna talk
about high tech 2 stroke take a look at new SDI or DFI engines now producing or coming very soon,2 stroke more efficient!!!

 

not to say the least but,your're just proving your point too,4 stroke don't enough produce top end power that they can rev to 12-14 000 rpm and still thinking the engine is powerful,don't get me wrong over here,
i can buy jaws pipe for my XCR tomorrow and it will rev to 10000 rpm not
kidding,but it will make more ***** to the wall fun when i'll hit that rpm through,in the 200+ hp man....
did you ever tried a genesis triple once a lifetime?you won't known about what engines can be smothnesssly powerful,psi now produce a 1400cc artctic cat triple,you'll have your hand full only whern the tach is showing 7500 rpm....ahahha,tried a zr 900 lately,2 stroke the way to go!!!for the die hard,still new engines coming til the epa's new restrictions,stay tuned.

 

hey all...jus for fun...i made a poll on this subject!!! Check it out...and vote whacha feel...and lets see where the majority ends up!!!