Trasher, From people I talked to about pulling doubles: You really need to think about how you drive, where you travel, eat, get gas, etc. These things are long trains and cannot be backed up easily. I think about doing it all the time. Even picked up the Commercial Drivers handbook at DMV. I think I would only do it towing to Pismo, Pretty much country roads, Highways and I-5 for me to get there. One fuel stop in Paso Robles (Union 76) and it has pull through pumps with alot of room for turn arounds[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] Commercial Drivers I know, pretty much hate backing up doubles[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img] about 10 feet or so is the max according to them.

 

I think you need BRAKES (ie:Electric) on all towed trailers & you cannot exceed the combined gross vehicle weight (CGVW) posted on your tow rigs door panel.

 

Bigdaddy, here you go on the brakes. And you should never exceed the posted weights for your vehicle.
Sub-section (b) will probably effect majority of us:

26302. (a) Every trailer or semitrailer, manufactured and first
registered after January 1, 1940, and having a gross weight of 6,000
pounds or more and which is operated at a speed of 20 miles per hour
or over shall be equipped with brakes.
(b) Every trailer or semitrailer manufactured and first registered
after January 1, 1966, and having a gross weight of 3,000 pounds or
more shall be equipped with brakes on at least two wheels.
(c) Every trailer or semitrailer manufactured after January 1,
1982, and equipped with air brakes shall be equipped with brakes on
all wheels.
(d) Brakes required on trailers or semitrailers shall be adequate,
supplemental to the brakes on the towing vehicle, to enable the
combination of vehicles to comply with the stopping distance
requirements of Section 26454.

 

rescuediver: I hear ya, there is a real GRAY area from COMMERCIAL vehicles and RECREATIONAL vehicles. I think there should be a standard that everyone should follow when it comes to TOWING TRAILERS. I know in the state i live in the "STATE PATROL" & DOT cops have no set or reliable answer on this matter. I guess if all else fails we could ask DSXBEAR he is a state patrolmen for the state of Oregon. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

Bigdaddy, have you seen this chart before?Text
It has all 50 states plus Canada. It was updated March 2004. Like all information provided, everyone, should consult the appropriate agency that they might deal with, if, for some reason, they are stopped. (Nice declaimer[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img])

The recreational class A license in Ca. is relatively new. Not to many people know about it. It would be nice if people could find the information in black and white. Even in California's Commercial Driver's Hand book. They don't list the class A recreational License. Part of the problem is, to save money, the state prints thousands of copies to distribute before they order more. So, information is not always upto date in the appropriate reading materials.

 

WARNING: It's a long one. With links!

OK....where do I start (hehe). I'll answer or respond in the order of the posts.

Rescue #1: Looking at the chart on the DMV site from the Recreational Vehicles and Trailers Handbook it lists the non-commercial Class A as being able to tow "a travel trailer weighing over 10,000 lbs. GVWR or 5th wheel travel trailer weighing over 15,000 lbs. GVWR when the trailer is not used for hire (pay or other compensation)." I'd call that singles, with no applicable doubles endorsement. It shows endorsement on the Class A Comm for doubles. Even where I found the listings for DL in the CA VC, I didn't see a listing for Class A NC. Unless it's hidden in another section. Actually I just found it while reading through the VC: Restricted Class A License 12804.12. (Dating to 1993...so it's not THAT new. Before, what I found from DMV's site was an HTML version of the VC. This is a nice PDF of the VC.) 15278(a)1 lists doubles for "commercial motor vehicle that is any of the following: (1) A double trailer." Though, it doesn't say Commercial License. But 15275 references this section and is titled "Commercial Driver’s License: Endorsements."

Rescue #2: I think even using a 450+ (or even a 350 chassis cab) would count even if just towing a toy box. Afterall, aren't quads "property?" Or do they lump toy haulers in as housecars as they are considered a "coach" according to a DMV person when I was relicensing a 40' van and inquired why they weren't PTI. Hmmm. I'd hazard a bet they wouldn't go after ya. But then again, I always look at the laws with a pessimistic, worst case scenario.

Rescue #3: Thanks for the brakes info. Always just kinda wondered about that. My work Sonoma requires them on trailers over 1,000lbs. And I can see why.

Bigdaddy: I agree with you. It's that fine line. Talking to someone who is quite involved with the Clovis Rodeo, he noticed this year a LOT of riders have moved from 1 ton duallies to the little Freightliners and what not. I did see a ruling one time that the IRS considers them to be tractors (i.e. rigs) and not RVs as they are primary designed to pull a trailer. And should therefore be taxed accordingly. This was on the Cowboy Cadilac web site. They make some NICE stuff. It becomes one of those issues, does the use matter? Or just the description of the vehicle.

Rescue #4: I've seen that chart, or one much like it before. Some things jump out and look weird to me. Max weight is listed at 1,500lbs. SAY WHAT? Is that tongue weight on bumper pulls? They need more footnotes on that thing. I believe there are some instances where some lights aren't needed on the trailer when the tow vehicles lights are visible. Can't remember which ones.

Ok, I had WAY too much fun, and spent WAY too much time doing this. I'm thinking a good hour to hour and a half. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

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BlackandRed, Thanks for the additional information. I never said I knew it all[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] Until a few years ago, you (or should I say I) never saw doubles other then tractor trailers. But, times change and we are now getting into Baby boomers and others (like me), that want to take a camper and toys with us when we leave home. So, I think Ca. is playing catch up in this department of Recreational Class A license. I have seen people driving the double pull trailers and always thought it was illegal. After seeing more each time I go to Pismo, I askd my CHP friends. Been told it's legal. I was told what I described in above thread. Unfortunately, it's not all black and white. I think there still is some gray areas(always will be) But after talking to CHP and DMV, I believe it is a reality, but not well known out in the public world.

#2. Toy trailer is still a house car, therefore exempt.
#3. Your welcome
#4. I agree with you, information is not all clear, but, I thought it was a good starting point. Did you read my disclaimer?

And me too, between this one and the 7.3 thread, felt like I was at work today[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img] Later Dan

 

WOW, you guys are coming up with some GREAT info. I've been in the commercial transportaion industry for 30 years, all i can say is alot of states follow CALIFORINAs leed when it come to hiway travel laws, it looks like cal. is going to leed when it comes to Recreational Vehicles laws also. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK and keep that info coming [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

Bigdaddy, You are welcome. The state does have a few(alright a lot) of down falls[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] But, you are correct, we do lead the way, in some areas.

 

Thanks Big. I just get interested in it. Especially when I go to Pismo and see the bigger trailers and what not out there. I once even saw an 18 wheeler getting pulled by a dozen heavy duty trucks after he broke down in soft sand.

Plus when someone doesn't follow your advice you just can't wait for something to prove your point. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] Yeah, I've got that side to me.

I get interested in something and then just start searching around the Internet. Granted, you have to take your sources in some light, unless it's the official government site for laws. But any other source of opinion of fact needs to considered with any bias they might have. I look at things from the most negative side. What's the downfall? What's the liability? Rather then, well, I can physically pull that load up the hill. I can operate the vehicle, etc. But what about legally? I don't myself, and don't want my friends to be the one that ends up killing the family of 5 on their first vacation in years with an unsafe vehicle.

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