i ride on rock more than dirt, everything from rock the size of a lunch box to the slick rock of Moab. ground clearance is good, but not at the expense of a high center of gravity. it's a trade-off. on large rock, the huge ground clearance is not as important, it's the rock about 2'-3' size that will test skid plates. wheel spacers might help with the high center of gravity on off camber stuff, but i have to stay less than 50" to run on the National Forest locally, so i can't go too wide.
i bought a Brute 650i for this task, and put a set of Bighorns on it. i'm not saying that the Brute is the best since i haven't ridden everything available, but the brute has what i need to ride on rock. the carbs are fine if once tuned properly. i can run from 4,000' to over 10,000' without problems. i'm kinda old school about efi, too, even tho i know it's proven.
BUT, i have seen very capable crawlers from just about every manufacturer, as long as the front diff has some kind of locker, it has low range, irs, and good rock tires. i think all of the atvs mentioned above, and the KQ are close enough that any difference in performance on the rock can be offset by a rider that knows his machine. so if you have a favorite out of these machines, get it and add some good rock tires, then learn how to make it get there.

the mud tire question was brought up on another board, and they said that in the man-made mud holes with a bottom, the skinny tires do well. in swamps that may have no bottom, the wide tires with floatation are the key. this is hearsay, because i ride around the mud if i can.

i'm going to Moab again in a couple of weeks, and taking the brute, so i'll have pics when i get back.

monty

 

Bumping over a few rocks in a trail is one thing, heck use any quad you want to for that

but if your talking true gnarly rock crawlin then the last friggin thing Id want is a thousand pound polaris or bomb or such. I'd want the lightest most nimble true 4x4 quad I could get with some slighty oversized (not huge 28's requiring liftkits) radials aired down to 2 psi (or lower) with some beed locks and a good heavy duty plastic skidplate front to rear. You don't need lot's of horsepower when CRAWLING over rocks, you just need all 4 tires hooked up to a decent tranny with low range. You want to have enough lead in your britches to hold that quad upright when the front end dips down into a hole and if your on a huge heavy quad then you won't be able to counter balance it.


I'm thinking your all talking about a few rocks in the trail though so ignore my thread.

 

Have to agree with propnut the Kodiak is an outstanding rock crawler. I had some experience with rock crawling at Windrock in TN. The Kodiak performed extremely well. It is light handling, locker front, excellent skid plates, and low gear make it a formatable crawler. The locker is a must have in my opinion because much of the time one wheel is off the ground, ( watched the atvtv episode on rock crawling and the single tracks were having alot trouble, were the Grizzlies went right over). The radials are also a good choice for crawling because of the larger contact patch and flex. My Wetlands worked great, very stable. I am sure the Grizzly or King Quad is a good choice as well for the big bores, IMO.

 

Thanks to all for opinions. What I was talking about is serious extended technical rock and log crawling. I don't know if I would ever actually get into these gnarly situations but my idea is to get a good 4WD machine that has potential to handle advanced types of technical trails. Then if I can develop the skills at least the quad will not be the limiting factor. I am much less concerned about speed and high speed handling. I realize that just about anything will get through the easy stuff even my 400EX with skids. So if I can settle on a machine that has potential for the gnarliest situations and at the same time is adequate in the easy trails that ought to be the best of both worlds. From what you all have said so far that could be a Cat700EFI, King, Kodiak(smallest full featured), Sp700EFI, Grizz, or Bomb and perhaps even in that order considering features and depending on priorities and preferences.

 

The world champion ATV trials rider uses a 400 Outlander for his rock crawling competions. His reasoning is because the Outlander is the most stabile with just the right amount of lockup. The champ is from Portugal where trials is very popular.

 

Dirtydude, i've been on the rock there they film magazine shoots and tv shows about crawling. if a rock so huge that it takes all day to get across is "just a rock in the trail" then you might be right.
the small and light theory sounds good, except for one thing. ledges, a common obstacle. if your machine has a wheel base (front wheel to back wheel) of only 75% of mine, then you will only be able to climb a ledge that is 75% of what i can climb. the front wheels need to get enough of a bite on the top of the ledge to pull the rear wheels up the verticle surface. and if you ride a few very difficult routes right next to the trailer with a crew there to help you need a different machine than if you spend all day on the rock by yourself. if you need to carry your own gear, then you need a machine that can pack a load (winch, extra fuel, tools, first aid kit, spare belt, lunch, drinking water, ect...)
so, get enough machine and choose your mods carefully. you will learn how to pick a line that allows you to keep your machine from rolling, or you won't.

monty

 

Again, efi would be a definite plus if not neccessity. The Grizz doesn't have it let alone the kodiak. The bomb OL 400 has very minimal ground clearance and suspension travle without efi. The OL 650 and 800 have more as well efi. The KQ has the efi, but not the gc or travle either. The 06 rincon has efi, but no low gear or diff lock. I know people that rock crawl with the sportsman and there awd system does fine, however, I could see where one would want to have the option to be in continuous 3x4 or 4x4 depending on the situation. The Bomb OL also has an electronic diff lock which could make things nasty in certain rcoky situations. Honestly, with this being said, I would personaly wait for the grizz efi to come out this fall. If you need it now, I would look toward a KQ700 and modify it's suspension, or the new Arctic Cat 700efi, basically a KQ with more gc, suspension travel and under carriage protection. The AC is a bit larger and heavier, yes but by the time you modify any machine to it's capabilty or the sportsmans, you'll have their weight up there too.

 

I have been on the rubicon trail 12 times! 10 times in my rock crawling ford 69 BRONCO. 2 times with a yamaha wolverine . Ihave seen 2 banshees (they do not work very well) . 6 a cats. do not know what size but i think they were 500. and 1 300 a cat . for me i well not do it angain with the wolvy (need low range). outside of not having low range the wolvy did fine. I would like to get a atv that was lite 450 lbs max,lockers,that you can take in or out ,low range,about 8" of travel anything more than that you will find your self on your butt. and INF is a must.

 

Sounds like you know what you're talking about. If 8" of travel will do it, sounds like the KQ700efi is it. If the kodiak 450 had efi, I'd suggest it, but the King is not that much heavier.

 

As far as the mud question goes... truck mud tires and atv mud tires are two completely different things so you can't really compare them.

When it comes to bottomless gumbo that sinks you to your frame you want the most tire you can get on the ground to keep you on top and you don't want alot of weight to sink you to the bottom ethier. Now when it comes to the man made pits they generally have a hard bottom before you sink to your frame and water that makes you float so the more weight the better and the skinner tire because it will hold less air to make you float up thus keeping all 4 tires on the ground and going.