Mabey a little exaggeration, but not a lie. I think AC is Better than grizzly for rock climbing, mabey not better than others, but better than a grizzly

 

I think in a field or on slight off cambers you are right. I like that about my buddy's 500i, and the ride. But I do not like how unstable it is because of it's height and travel - almost too much for certain conditions. So to say the AC is outright better is stretching it

 

I will agree with this statement. Every brand has its ups and downs

 

Here is summary of most often mentioned characteristics of top rock crawlers;
1. Full lock front differential.
2. Tie between ground clearance, suspension travel, and light to moderate weight.
3. Tranny low range.
4. Tie between fuel injection, moderate center of gravity height, good aftermarket skids, and good aftermarket tires.
5. Tie between IRS, small size, enough diff lock if not full locker, and power. Note, IRS could have been mentioned either for the ground clearance or for suspension action.
6. Tie between light steering, ability to pull larger tires, bead locks, good winch, good load carrying capacity, full size chassis, and stability (could come from low CG, wide trac, or moderate susp/ground clearance).
So one thing is clear and that is there is more than one good way to crawl. The big and tall Cat and Sportsman; the moderate sized King, Grizz, Brute, and Bomb; and the small or compact like Kodiak all have their fans. The Hondas are generally out of the question. It also seems like it would take a very significant performance or cost advantage before selecting anything without full lockers like Polaris and Bombardier. So seems to me that decision will be based on combination of performance factors going beyond just the rock. The King sure looks like a good common sence low risk middle ground choice that would be hard to go very wrong with. I need to wait until the new Cat 700 EFI arrives in a few weeks and decide if the benefit is worth the cost. And then there is that Grizz 700 EFI in only 6 more months or so. Thanks all.

 

the AC just feels tippier due to it's higher COG but it isn't any tippier then any other machine it's wheel stance is wider then most to make up for this and make them more stable. one of my best friends i go riding with has a grizz 660 heck of a machine i really like it but my 650 with 27 inch tires spanks that grizz in every terrain you can throw at it oh and the grizz has 26 inch mud lites. if i had a scanner i got water wheelie pics of us two i can sit on mine tap the throttle and i am doing a wheelie he has to jump on his rear rack just to get the front end up. oh forgot to mention he has a highlifter kit in his as well. my 650 in mud and rocks and downed trees does alot better then him i guess you can say throttle him. and propnut leave your rubicon in the garage you can't hang with the big boys so don't BS anyone.

 

OldTurtle,

Seems you're are smart enough to weed through all this bickering and tell who is being honest and has given you valid advise. Yes, you have nailed it in your last post. If you do not want to wait for the AC 700efi of even longer for the lighter weight grizz efi, then the KQ is your best choice.

 

I think we got a case of major brand loyalty bias going on here.. Frankly I don't understand why you would try to push your brand onto someone else, perhaps to justify your purchase? Or boost up your ego a tad? hmmm? Don't worry though, I think we all are prone to doing that if we don't sit back and think about what we are saying.

I did a review on the AC650 awhile back, I gave my honest opinion here is the link: CLICK ME AND READ ME!!
WEEZ440 you agreed with me on that thread saying and I quote "you got all the good points and bad points right down to a T" Why would I have them right in that thread but not this one? You have had to mod your machine quite a bit in order to get it up to snuff, not everyone is willing/wanting to do so to a new machine. I have no doubt that your AC 650 is a awesome machine now (not that it's any slouch bone stock mind you) but keep in mind your machine is custom now, and obviously your quite proud of it.

V2Rider I think WEEZ440 has given a great argument for the AC650 but let's try to keep the embellishment down some huh [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

the only thing that isn't stock is the cdi and the clutch springs the only reason the clutch springs are on there is to tighten the belt up it doesn't have that much different of a feel but with the cdi yes it did make a hp increase. the ac is a machine you have to ride a lil bit to get used to an besides with 27 inch 6-ply tires that itself cuts the power down that the cdi increased for me. as i said the grizzly is a great machine and it is deffinately my second choice if i didn't have my cat but as far as everything we have put them up against the cat has been better except for faster trails. i remember that thread to and i was honest that the 650 isn't a perfect machine and well there is no such thing as a perfect machine either. if you have the grizz in low range and the 650 in low the cat has wayyyy more on crack down and well about the tranny it has been no secret since getting mine that i hate it lol

 

Sorry propnut, I was having a bad day. Hope I didn't come on too harsh. I have always enjoyed reading your posts.

 

turtle, there's a guy on some of these boards by the name of fattireracer that has a KQ set up for crawling. it looks pretty capable. i only bring this up baecause you mentioned the KQ, and i also believe the KQ should be on the list.
like you say, there is more than one way to crawl. just like the jeeps, samari, landcruiser, bronco,ect. the mods and the driver make more difference than the base machine (within reason). some guys run big block blazers and broncos, while others like the little samauri. shoot, i saw a brand new 1-ton diesel King Ranch Edition ford (with lift and tires) on the Poison Spider trail last year running with some tube framed jeeps and Hummer H1s.
i chose the 650i for the v-twin (gotta love 'em), knowing full well that there may be a better rock machine out there. but with the right mods, it'll hold it's own. i am thinking a set of Elkas set up for crawling ought to just about put me there. (already have Bighorns and clutch springs)
there is no stock atv that is ideal for crawling. you'll have to tweak it. i think any of those on your list can be made to craw very well. even with the mods, you'll have to decide if you need the very best crawling ability, or if you need a machine that can crawl well, and still be somewhat reliable, comfortable,and safe for other tasks as well.

monty