I dont believe the Warn A2500 uses a simple DPDT solenoid. A DPDT solenoid works like 2 seperate solenoids in one case {same as a DPDT switch, but operated by an electric coil & plunger}.I needs to do that, but also needs to reverse the polarity of the output terminals for when you want to change the direction of rotation of the drum.In other words, you cant just supply positive current to one or the other terminal on the winch, you have to have negative current supplied to the opposite terminal you are powering. Maybe the Superwinch is internaly grounded and needs only power supplied to each wire for each direction, but the Warn does not operate like that.

[This message has been edited by like2wheel (edited 01-27-2000).]

 

Does anybody have the electrical schematic for the Warn A2500 winch? Seems to me $175 is awful high for a couple relays and a rocker switch to convert the A2000.

 

Like2Wheel, for the first time in my Forum posting career, I'm going to tell someone, you're wrong.

Not: possibly, you're in error; maybe we have a misunderstanding here; perhaps we could look at the situation another way . . . nope!

With a pencil and paper, I think you can figure this one out (how a DPDT switch or relay powers and reverses a winch). If you have another, or better way, you may be entitled to a patent and large sums of royalty money.

The DPDT switch and the DPDT solenoid relay (where employed) each powers and controls the rotation direction (reverses) the winch motor.

Double Pole: One pole is connected to the ground, one is connected to the battery postive terminal.

Double Throw: Throw 1) Positive is connected to motor terminal A; Negative is connected to terminal B; motor rotates OUT. Throw 2) Positive is connected to motot terminal B; Negative is connected to terminal A; motor rotates IN.

If you want to have a solenoid setup on your own, on a budget, you can work up the same scheme with four automobile starter solenoids and a SPDT switch.

By the way, Wannabe, I believe the Warn A2500 uses a SPDT toggle switch to control the DPDT solenoids, instead of a rocker switch as you mention.

And, no; SuperWinch motors are not grounded; their terminals are isolated, as are Warns'. Otherwise, how would you reverse the motors?

Tree Farmer

 

Hear is a site that has part numbers and blueprints for warn winches.www.dsiwarn.com/ look under parts and service.I printed them out just in case I ever needed them I would have the part numbers.Would my a2000 winch pull 2500 with heaver wire?

 

You ask a good question; my intent is responding respectfully; I'm not trying to blow you off with a smart answer.

Short answer, Sportsman, no.

Both the A2500 and A2000 Warn winches have 0.9 horsepower motors at 136:1 reduction gearing.

Bigger wires won't make a winch pull any harder than a bigger fuel line will make your Sportsman go faster. The Polaris engineers provided a fuel line big enough as-built; the Warn engineers provided electrical cable sufficient for the rated service. Wire gauge is not the limitation on winch performance in this case.

Warn is not the only winch manufacturer using identical motors and gearing in products carrying different ratings.

Tree Farmer

 

Well hold on there Tree Farmer. I'm not so sure that less resistance in the circuit from the current source to the winch motor isn't the reason Warn can rate the A2500 at 25% more capacity. I have no personal knowledge of what is different between the two winches which is why I asked about a schematic, but I think it is entirely conceivable that by using larger wiring between the electrical source and the motor that they could achieve higher torque.

I would assume that with the 2500 they are not running the full current through the switch like they are with the 2000. Therefore they probably apply the load directly from the battery/alternator via heavy relays or contactors and heavier gauge wiring. Seems to me from my ohms law theory that a little less resistance would allow more amprage draw from the motor and thus allow it to pull harder. I don't think I am contradicting anything you said except that Warn may not have designed the 2000 to its maximum ELECTRICAL potential. Perhaps they did to the maximum COST EFFECTIVE potential by using the less expensive rotary switch and smaller wires to it. But as I said, this is only theory on my part.

 

Tree---I think there is probably more than a "miniscule" production cost savings. Again, I am not sure what the difference in parts are between the 2000 and 2500 (maybe somebody who has bought the $175 upgrade could tell us), but I suspect it's probably one or two waterproof hi-current relays, switch, heavier wire and maybe a remote cable. The relay(s) could add $50 alone. I doubt a Ford starter relay ($5) would work very well. If the setup does cost in the $50 or more range to incorporate, that might be more than enough for the marketing experts to ask for a less expensive arrangement (i.e. the 2000) to hit a price point competative with Superwinch and others.

Of course all this is speculation and the only reason I brought it up is that if the difference between the two is as I envision I am wondering why it would cost $175 to the consumer.

 

Wannabee, my post addressed Sportsman400's inquiry regarding WIRING alone. If you re-read his question, the scope was limited to wiring. Neither Sportsman400 nor I addressed solenoid relays or other upgrade kit components.

If I understood your previous post, you suggested possible economies by Warn, providing light-gauge wiring, consequently limiting winch pulling force.

I recommend you heft SuperWinch's DPDT solenoid assembly if the opportunity presents itself. Twelve-volt solenoid relays capable of handling 267 amps constitute heavy-duty hardware; I'm sure you'd agree with the part in your hands.

Doubtless, Warn's A2500 upgrade kit (part # 34708) contains a solenoid relay functionally similar to SuperWinch's; however, the subject was wiring alone.

Now, as to your skepticism regarding an automobile starter solenoid's (actually, you need FOUR to replicate a DPDT solenoid) capability to handle the current, consider this: Didja ever notice (apologies to Mr. Rooney) the "COLD CRANKING AMPS" specifications on automobile batteries? LOTS of amps (i.e., several hundred), aren't they? Where do these cold cranking amps flow? Could it be, I don't know, through SATAN (sorry, Church Lady!), I mean, through the automobile starter solenoid contacts? I think an automobile starter solenoid might handle the current required by an ATV winch.

Tree Farmer

[This message has been edited by Tree Farmer (edited 01-28-2000).]

 

Tree, I took your advice about the pencil & paper, and i must say, you're absloutely right. pretty simple when you look at it.I'm deeply embarassed to be the first to be completely wrong.That hurts.Maybe someday I'll be able to return the remarks, but I doubt it. I've been giving some thought to the original topic, and I think I may have come up with a pretty simple compromise.Unless you use your winch to raise/lower a snowplow, I can't think of many instances {and I could be wrong here} when you need to often switch from power in to power out.In fact,for recovery purposes, you freespool out, power in.If you could take out the spring that centers the rotary switch to off {switch comes apart with a simple e-clip},you could leave it in whatever position you want .Then all you would have to do is wire a pushbutton handlebar switch to control the soleniod.Push the button, solenoid throws, & winch operates in whatever direction you have the rotary switch set in. Hope this helps-sorry if it dosen't.

[This message has been edited by like2wheel (edited 01-28-2000).]

 

Sounds like a practicable idea, like2wheel!

While you'd lose some control of your load (in contrast to the DPDT setup, where you can instantly power in or out), and you'd have to perform more manual functions (e.g., solenoid off; change direction switch; solenoid on) involving more time, it would work.

The main drawback appears to me, full winch power current still flows through the switch, the weak link of these arrangements.

I appreciate your good humor, accepting my alternative point of view, regarding DPDT switches and solenoid relays. And, by the way; I didn't say you were the first "wrong" poster, I said you were the first I TOLD he was wrong! I apologize for my lack of diplomacy; guess I'm ready for the refresher course at finishing school.

Tree Farmer



[This message has been edited by Tree Farmer (edited 01-28-2000).]