Ok, I realize you're all getting bored with the winch topic, but please bear with me on this one. I'm not completely electrically illiterate, but could use some help. It seems that the warn A2000 has been the winch of choice for most people. However, throughout the forum, and elsewhere, I've seen several people suggesting the warn A2500, and even a Rule 3,300. With the use of a ****** block doubling your pulling power, is the 2500, or even the 3,300 really necessary? Lets say the atv weighs in at around 650 for an AC 500 dry weight. Add fuel, gear, tools, winch and a 220 lb. rider, you are still only around 900, maybe 930lbs. Even if you were buried in mud, with a ****** block, there is still over 3000lbs. of pulling power, right?

I was just curious about this one due to the money factor. The 2500 can be as much as $150 more than the A2000, and I'm not sure about the Rule, but I'm sure it ain't cheap either. The thing is, the local Honda dealer told me that the A2000 requires about 100 amps to have the power for the full rated pull of 2000 lbs. He said that with the stock alternator putting out 20 amps, or whatever the rating was, and the size of the battery, that even at high rpm's on the engine, you would still not be able to deliver enough electrical power or current that the winch requires for the full rated pull. If this is true, and the 2500, or bigger winches requiring more yet, is it really worth it?

Thanks for the advice.
Mike

 

A2000 pulls 145 amps at 2000 pounds
A2500 pulls 188 amps at 2500 pounds
Both use the same 0.9 HP motor and 136:1 gear
ratio.
The rating is based on 1st wrap (of cable on the drum). Your rating will drop proportionally with each successieve wrap of cable on the drum.
Just my opinion, but if you get any brand of 2000 pound winch and a ****** block and about 100 feet of extra (emergency) cable, you will be happy.

 

you are right . the only way to get that kind of amprage is to have someone rebuild your charging stater.

 

Thanks for the input guys, I was hoping the A2000 would be fine. As far as the "emergency cable" goes, is there a reason for the cable, instead of rope? Cable tends to fray with extended use, which weakens it and makes it more dangerous to use. Rope is also more flexible. Personal preference I guess.
Mike

 

Bored? About winches? Never!

Cowboy, while I own and use Warn winches myself and consider them quality products, I ain't sure Warn is always the winch of choice, all things considered (including price). Warns aren't the only game in town.

SuperWinch ATV2000 and T1500 winches are worth a look; 2400 # stall pull after 9 hours total immersion; handlebar-mounted rocker control switches; 0.45 Hp motors with 153:1 reduction; 90 amps draw at 1500 #; 118 amps draw at 2000 #. Internal mechanical spring brake standard on ATV2000; $ 22 retrofit part for T1500.

Now, your power generating system on your ATV will never, never, never, never produce 118 amps, much less the 188 amps a Warn A2000 draws at 2500 # pull. Instead, your alternator puts out around 12-14 amps max at 12 volts.

How, then, does a high-amperage device, like a winch (or, one might say, starter motor) work off a quad's electrical system?

The storage battery stores the low-amperage output of your quad's alternator/rectifier power generation system for the moments when you need high-amperage power.

Batteries are rated in "amp-hours," typically, an ATV battery will be rated on the order of 14 amp-hours, meaning, such a bettery can deliver current at the rate of 14 amps for a period of one hour.

Now, how long can you pull a 2500 # load with your Warn A2500 on such a system? Lesseee: (14 amps) x (60 minutes/hour) = (188 amps) X ( ? minutes); turns out to be about 5 and a half minutes.

After you've discharged your battery, you'll have to wait while the quad re-charges it; at a rate of around 12-14 amps.

Fortunately, you're not likely to need the full 2500 # pull for long; at lower pull loads, less current is drawn.

You write, "With the use of a ****** block doubling your pulling power, is the 2500, or even the 3,300 really necessary? Lets say the atv weighs in at around 650 for an AC 500 dry weight. Add fuel, gear, tools, winch and a 220 lb. rider, you are still only around 900, maybe 930lbs. Even if you were buried in mud, with a ****** block, there is still over 3000lbs. of pulling power, right?"

You math is "right;" however, there's more to the story. As to how much winch is "necessary," I've survived with a SuperWinch ATV1500 and ****** block, in continuous service since 1978 (first vehicle installed: 1978 Subaru S/W; dealer-installed factory accessory).

The total weight of the quad and rider isn't the whole story; the geometry of the recovery situation and leverage of the obstacles involved determine the pull required.

For example, a 5,000 # wrecker can recover a 50,000 # 18-wheeler from a canyon. How? Chocking the wheels of the wrecker prevents the heavier load from pulling the wrecker off the cliff, instead of the wrecker pulling the 18-wheeler up from the canyon floor.

Mud, and sometimes logs and rocks, act on the quad's tire/wheels/bumper/frame like those chocks on the wrecker's tires, giving tremendous leverage working against the recovery pull, leverage requiring far more pull than the quad's total weight.

Finally, if you like Warn winches, by all means buy one; it's your money and you should be satisfied. How much winch is necessary? I consider a 1500 # winch with a ****** block adequate for most ATV self-recovery situations; not to say, more pull isn't better/faster/more convenient, as in the SuperWinch X2 3000 # winch (1.3 hp; 148:1 reduction; remote switch) I've just installed!

Tree Farmer

P.S. Oh, yeah, about your emergency cable/rope question; rope's o.k.; however, rope cannot be threaded through a ****** block as can a compatible cable.

T.F.

 

Tree Farmer: Thanks for clearing things up a bit. I'm with ya on the amp/hourxminute used part, except you said that after the 5 1/2 minutes of use-in your example, you'll have to wait till the battery recharges AT 12-14 amps. Do you mean wait till it recharges to the original 12-14 amp of reserve power you were referring to earlier, and if so, approximately how long does that take? If the alternator is putting out 25 amps, or at idle? Or do you mean wait till it is charging at 12-14 amps? Maybe I just read it wrong.

You are right about the added effects of things such as logs, rocks, trees, mud, etc. on the pulling force required to remove the stuck vehicle from its position, to a more favorable location. That really increases the amount of pulling power needed.

The only reason I refer to warn winches is because I have used the warn x8000, 9000xdi, 10,000, and 12,000 lb. winches on several trucks, and numerous jeeps around my area. (Used to run with a jeep club-had a lot of christmas tree runs in deep snow, as well as general volunteer trail cleanup, and mountain restoration type work, so winches were a necessity). Anyway, they are the only winch I really have experience with, other than PTO winches.

That's a good point about the rope in the ****** block. Hadn't thought of that. Going from you experience, and also I'd rather have more "emergency" rope/cable than not enough, do you think your standard winch cable, plus 100' of rope, along with 50' of cable to use with the ****** block would be enough? Or, if you ran the winch out to the cable, around the ****** block, with the cable being hooked onto the rope, back to the stuck atv, would 25' of cable be enough?

Usually you won't be winching yourself 25, or 50', if you are, that is one nasty mudhole, but rather just enough to free yourself from being stuck in the first place.

Thanks for the help. Sorry about the confusion part. It's late, and I've been reading some damn genetics homework for an exam on friday. My head is throbbing, if you know what I mean. I hate genetics!

Thanks again,
Mike

 

Mike, I share your positive experience using Warn winches, finding SuperWinch products good as well.

Regarding battery charging, a 150-watt alternator, about the size found on a quad, delivers 12.5 amps at 12 volts; that's all she wrote! The battery cannot be charged any faster with the vehicle charging system.

In practice, the charging voltage is a volt or two higher than 12 volts nominal, and the maximum current flow tapers off as the battery becomes charged. Nevertheless, starting from a discharged battery, the energy stored is proportional to the time charged; you can operate the winch before full charge is reached, but you deplete the added amp-hours restored at the same rate as from a fully-charged battery.

As to length of auxiliary line or cable carried, I consider the length of the cable spooled a minimum, with more depending on how far away pull points (e.g., trees) might be where you ride.

If you're sweating the pulling force between the Warn A2000 and A2500, don't! Both have 0.9 hp motors, as mentioned in a previous post, and identical gearing.

Conventional wisdom says, apply 12 VDC across the terminals of either, and they'll pull with exactly the same force at exactly the same speed.

The difference? The A2500 has a remotely-switched solenoid power and control system; the A2000 has a manual rotary control switch. Some believe the A2500 pulls 25% harder than the A2000 because Warn uses larger gauge wire in the A2500 hookup; however, I doubt Warn would deny its customers a quarter of their winch's capability by using small wire as a current-limiting device.

Consider yourself now prepared for any Winchology exam; I cannot vouch for your readiness in Genetics!

Tree Farmer

 

treefarmer you allways have some very helpfull info to post. thanks for all the specs you post. i have a warn 2000 winch and i am happy with it so far. if you are going to ride byyourself i feel it is a must to have. i have some friends that have warn winches and have had problems with them. one has the 2500 and it broke after 1 month of use. we do submerge our winches when we ride and we are all mudriders to the core. warn did fix the winch under warrenty without any hassels. i have buried my 300 praire 4x4 and the winch has pulled it out without any problems.
hope this helps

 

cowboy,

Another thing to consider is that most rope I have seen has to be very large in diameter to have a load rating equal to steel cable. By the time you go large enough, the cost is about the same. Always make sure you don't introduce a weak link into your rigging. Now the maximum pull on the Warn A2000 is 2,000 lbs. Under most circumstances the actual pull is much less than this, and 2,000 would only be on the first spool layer. To be safe, I have tried to make sure all of my rigging components (****** block, hooks, cable, pulling straps etc is rated at least for a load of 2,000 lbs.