FKNA
Im sorry but I've been listening to this helmet debate for years and years. I guess I just don't understand what would make someone take such a strong stand on such a tiny issue. All I hear is individual rights, bad government messing in my life, its a victimless crime and other such things. I even remember reading long ago where one group of motorcyclist were saying that helmets casue more injuries then they prevent. Riding without a helmet is in no way shape or form a victimless crime. Each and every death and injury that happen on ATVs are used against us every day. We the group at large are judged by the mistakes of the misguided few. Do you really whant to put your wife through what is considered one of the highest stresses one can have in life which is the loss of a spouse? Especially(sp) if it could be so easily avoided?
Now I am not saying this at you directly I don't know you but I am making a general observation here. Whenever I hear someone speaking out against the manditory use of helmets I picture a small child saying in a somewhat whining voice "But Mom I don't want to wear my raincoat."
I realize that I will probably never change your mind on this subject, as well you probably realize that you will never change mine.
I wish you the best of luck and I hope that you do not become another death statistic to be used against ATV riders.

 

Ursus,
I'll tell you why I take a strong stand on such a seemingly tiny issue. It's because I'm very much for individual rights. And I don't want to change anyone's mind. All I want to do is open some eyes so the big picture can be seen. You start taking away individual rights you soon find yourself without FREEDOM! And I'll fight to my death to preserve freedom. I wear a seat belt every time I drive. Not because it's law, but because it's MY CHOICE. And even though I wear a seat belt I will ALWAYS fight the seat belt law. Same holds true for the helmet laws. It doesn't matter whether I choose to wear a helmet or not. It should NOT be law and I will continue to fight that law and any others like it that chip away at that little thing called freedom.

People riding mountain bikes are just in much danger of cracking open their skull if they don't wear a helmet. Should we make a law making it so they are required helmets?

That little old lady living in the Midwest had to take down her bird feeder because the city passed a city ordinance making it illegal. All because a bird probably crapped on someones car. Is this right? Was passing this city ordinance the solutition?

All I'm saying here is be respectful of anothers individual rights. Don't force your views upon others by lobbying for laws that strip away anothers individuals rights. As I have said in previous posts, today it's my rights being stripped away, tomorrow it's yours.

 

FKNA
You make some valid points. Yes the government can be obtrusive into our lives. And I can understand being upset about the woman without her bird feeder. Its her property, if she wants to feed birds and as long as it doesn't create a problem with her neighbors I don't think government should be involved. But I have seen cases where birds drawn to a small area because of feeders have made the whole neighborhood almost covered in bird "stuff". I think in that case it would be her neighbors individual rights as a majority to remain relativly bird "stuff" free that might cause government action against the woman with the bird feeder. The rights of the majority outweight the individuals rights.
The helmet thing is different though. The woman can no longer do what see enjoyed which was feeding birds. Government came in and for whatever reason squashed her right to pursue happiness by feeding birds. A helmet law wouldn't impact your right to pursue happiness by riding, it would just have you pursue it in a slightly safer fashion. Maybe I just don't see it clearly or something but I wouldn't think that riding without a helmet would be that much (if any) more enjoyable then riding with one.

 

So with your logic there should be no law that hunters have to wear orange when hunting.
I guess I look at it like this. ATVing on PUBLIC LAND is a privilege, just like driving. If you want that privilege you have to obey the rules or buy your own land to ATV on.
Wayne B

 

I don't know if I agree with having laws to make people wear helmets, but I do I think that if someone is dumb enough to ride around (which excludes hunting, farming, and that kind of stuff)without a helmet, then they really aren't someone that we want in this sport anyway. After they all get hurt so serously that they can't ride, the helmet problem will be solved, and the only people left will be ones that wore helmets in the first place. Anyone who thinks so little of his/her body that they wont wear a helmet, let them suffer the consequences of their actions. But that's just MY opinion.

 

RDBwheeler,
"Which excludes hunting, farming, and that kind of stuff".....Well put. Not everyone is out there doing wheelies on their atv's, not everyone is out there doing 60mph+ on their atv, not everyone is playing Evil Knieval out there. Some are out there hunting and "that kind of stuff". Which that's the category that I fall in. And another reason it should be CHOICE, not LAW. Some of the places I ride my atv I'm better off with a life jacket than a helmet.

 

The key point there which may have been over-looked, those activities (hunting, farming ect) mainly take place on private property not public.

 

Ursus......and others the feel that we need laws in place enforcing individuals to wear helmets.

It sounds as though that you believe all sorts of laws that strip away an individual rights should be put in place when it comes to "public" land. It sounds as though we need laws in place to protect people from their own stupidity. You are soooooo right and I do believe it's time that I jump on the band wagon.

Before I jump on this band wagon, lets go over a few ATV FACTS. Each year there are 40,000 related atv injuries. Of that, 40% of those injuries were children under the age of 16 and 17% under the age of 12. Most atv accidents occur during the months of May, June and July and happen on Saturday night. Half of those accidents occuring at night are also alcohol related. The average age of adults involved in atv related accidents is 28.2 years. Out of the 40,000 injuries each year there are FOURTY ATV RELATED DEATHS.

Now that I have things in perspective it's time for me to jump on the band wagon. It's time for MORE LAWS! Between 1986 and 1988 ONE MILLION people world wide died of tobacco related diseases. Each year 20,000 Americans die of the flu. Let's FACE FACTS, THERE'S POLLUTION IN THE AIR.

Therefore I do hereby propose that we make a new nationwide law. WHEN IN PUBLIC A BUBBLE SUIT MUST WORN. This law is for YOUR health. By having to wear a bubble suit in public you will be protected by the flu germs floating around, you will be free from breathing in second hand smoke.

Who's with me on this? We need all the support we can get to get this proposed bill made into law. This is a very important issue. TWENTY THOUSAND AMERICAN LIVES can be SAVED each year with this law. Write your congressman, your senator, the mayor. IT'S TIME FOR ACTION

 

FKNA
First I would ask you to site the source of your statistics.
Second I would ask you to tell us out of the forty that die each year how many were not wearing helmets?
I understand your concern for personal freedom. But I don't understand your seemingly irrational stance on this issue. You yourself admit that it is smarter and safer to wear helmets. You feel that anyone who doesn't make a child wear a helmet should be beaten with a baseball bat. Now you want to equate helmets with bubble suits. I think you might be pushing it a tad too far. We the people have established a government that basically sometimes forces us to do what we are to stupid (not you personally here, just people in general) to do on our own.
A perfect example of this would be OSHA. The government stepped in and set guidelines and requirments that employees and employers must follow. To apply the same logic that you are using with helmets to the work place would go something like this..
"That dag nabbed government is messing with my personal freedom making me wear all this silly safty gear when Im messing with all these chemicals. I know that these chemicals can eat right through my skin, but by golly I should be able to use it with by bare hands if I want to. It won't hurt nobody but myself if I let the chemicals eat through my hands."

 

Ursus,
I'm going to assume that all forty deaths were with people NOT wearing helmets. Just as I'm going to assume that all 20,000 influenza deaths were people that were NOT wearing a bubble suit. As far as where I got these statistics, I did not spend much time yesterday acquiring this information. I just used a search engine to look up atv deaths and flu deaths and looked at the government studies that have been conducted on these.

OSHA deals with businesses, NOT individuals. So this is a bad example.

My irrational stance on this issue? There are different risk factors involved when riding an atv. If one is riding a scream demon, doing a 50mph power slide, they are more likely to crash and burn than someone riding a utility machine doing 15mph through a mud bog. Sure it's safer to wear a helmet in either one of these instances. I also think it would be safe to say that you could easily cut those 40,000 injuries per year in HALF if not more if only they were wearing those boots that go up to the knees and chest protectors. I'm NOT going to wear those boots or chest protectors nor shall I lobby for laws that would require people to do so for their own safety.

Let me see if I can make things a bit more rational. Let's take smoking and drinking for example. I'm an ex smoker and do like to drink from time to time. Smoking is bad for your health. I knew it then, I know it now. If the government says I can't smoke, then they are taking away my individual rights. If the government says you I can't smoke in a restaurant.....well I wasn't happy about it at the time but did accept it because they were PROTECTING individual rights, all those non smokers that didn't want to breathe in my smoke. Just as I know drinking can cause liver damage...I know this one very well, I had a very close uncle that drank so much that he died at age 38. However, it was HIS CHOICE to drink a fifth or more each day. It's an individuals choice whether or not they want to drink. Our government learned this during prohibition. On the other hand there are laws in place to PROTECT INDIVIDUALS such as dwi. It's MY CHOICE to drink. I have that right and it should never be taken away from me. On the other hand it's YOUR right to drive down the road and not be killed by a drunk driver, therefore the dwi laws in place are there to protect individual rights.

You may think my bubble suit scenario is ludicrous. And you know what, you're right...it is.....But it's no more ludicrous than telling me I can't crack my head open for not wearing a helmet and/or seat belt, turn my lungs black from smoking, dissolving my liver from drinking. Just as you probably would not want to be forced to wear a bubble suit in order to protect your health why would you want to lobby for a law that forces another individual to protect themselves?