I definitely think shortshighted is the correct term.

 

So what's your opinion on this issue? Better yet do you have a solution to the problem? Enjoy filling up your vehicle with gas next time. You can thank the enviromentalists. They have sued to have restrictions put on oil drilling and building new refineries. Now granted I think we should be producing alternative fuel vehicles to get away from oil dependency. I just think the greenies have gone too far in trying to save every little thing that lives because extinctions have been happening since life started here on Earth. Please feel free to enlighten me.

 

I've been arguing this same topic in a number of places so please read this Thread to avoid any repeats.

 

cr125 have you ever actually been to Pismo in February and March? The plovers are all over the place. Usually right at the water line. The closure is from 2/1 through 9/30 every year. Closing Pismo in the summer would be a death blow to ODSVRA and the surrounding community. Over half of the visitors come between Memorial and Labor Day. During the winter, with the exception of the holidays, most people venture off to Glamis & Dumont for there sand fix. In the summer, it's just too hot there.

Over half of the visitors to the Dunes (total visitorship is like 1.2-1.5 million/yr) come from the Central Valley (Sacramento to Bakersfield) who escape the Valley's heat.

There was a death in 2003, IIRC, that's assumed to be caused by a Ranger responding to an incident. But so far, the last couple years have had zero deaths.

Where do you get 7 miles? During the closure season, the riding area is limited to 2 miles of beach (Pole 2 to Pole 6 [each pole is 1/2 mile]). Other times of the year we get 3 miles to ride on. An additional 2 miles or so is available to street legal vehicles only (Grand Avenue to Pole 2).

ODSVRA probably does more to protect the plover than the rest of the West Coast combined. All the while having the Coastal Commission crawling up the parks @ss. And they do this while still providing roughly 1500 acres of riding area. Hopefully with groups like Friends of Oceano Dunes, Blue Ribbon Coalition, etc. the tides (pun intended) will turn.

Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote

 

Actually, i have been there during febuary and march. But i what i meant was that they breed for 3 months out of the year. Many will nest there for a while (sometimes from march till early november) or sometimes after they nest and breed many female plovers will leave with another male and will often fly many miles away, leaving the other male to brood the chickling and attract another breeding partner and eventually leave. Most of the birds that you see on the beach during that time of the year are the male plovers and chicklings

As for the 7 miles, i dont know what i was thinking. i already knew they were 1/2 miles but no excuses there

The death of the 1 plover was never proven that it was a human related death.

 

What I dont understand is how did the bird survive for the 30 plus yrs they didnt close the beach? The beach has been open since the early 60's from what Ive heard. And they started closing it down about 5-6 yrs ago or so. There is over 800 miles of coastline and this bird only can nest at the ohv park? I just dont understand.

I thought they were 1 mile apart too.

 

Actually, the beach has been in use since the turn of the century. Horse and Buggy, bicylcles, etc. At one point there was even a dance hall located on Pavillion Hill. That's the hill between Poles 3 & 4, just to the north of Sand Highway with the fence around it.

I would say that major use by OHVs started in the 60s, and especially off of just the beach. Without much use, the soft sand gets blown off the beach. During the closure times, look over into the closure area. There's pretty much ZERO soft sand along the beach. It's all blown out of the closure area (this year the whoops were insane along the eastern fenceline behind the closure. It was pretty much 1/2-1 mile of whoops. You had to go a couple hundred yards east to avoid them, and then worry about flying into a small bowl.

I always enjoy reading this site.

I think the Sierra Club has come after the off roaders because we can easily be deamonized. We're a small set of society. And often potrayed as wild people. For so long we weren't organized to fight back. It's easy to pick on a group when they aren't organized to put up much of a fight. The thing is, today, there are more and more people enjoying off-roading. We are getting organized. A lot of people have a lot of money tied up in this sport.

As a rough gauge, take your typical family of four. They get into this sport generally by way of a friend. Well, they don't have a truck, so they go out and drop $40-50K on a big 4x4 diesel or big gasser. Then drop another $25K on a trailer. They have yet to even buy the toys. Figure a couple of adult 400cc bikes at $6K-7K each. That's 12-14K. Then say a couple 250cc 4-strokes for the kiddies. Another $4k-5K each. That's $20K-$24K. Then figure in gear for 4, BBQ, and other camping supplies if they didn't already have it. It wouldn't be too hard to see where that family just dropped $100K on the sport. My buddy bought a decent house in Fresno for $132K 3 years ago.

I've met and ridden with a bunch of great people in this sport (including MWQ and others from the site). We get to enjoy doing this and meeting new people. Then, someone comes along and says you can't do that. Well, that tends to tweak people. The threat of losing out on a $100K investment is a huge thing. Anyways...enough of that tangent.

Why the bird chooses to nest at Pismo, no clue. Usually they like being where seaweed comes up as they feed on the critters in it. FoOD has asked if they could pull the washed up kelp into the closure areas, by foot. Nope. Won't let them.

One of the biggest threats to the plover was it's own natural enemy, the Least Tern. That's where a HUGE stride has been made. The tern was moved to another area of the dunes and the plover has been able to thrive on this section of beach. Why nothing was done before, no clue. I've never heard much of the plover issue before 2003. I think there was some study work done before that. Hopefully the groups that have banded together (other beach communities along with FoOD, etc.) to try and get the ESA listing of the plover pulled. If that's successful, hopefully we'll get to keep the other mile of beach open year round and maybe, just maybe, be able to slowly open some other area, but I doubt that would happen.

Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote

 

Its stupid how they limit us to the amount of beach we get. If they were really concerned for the bird they would open it all since it would be way less dense and would be a way less likely to kill it. But there is a hidden agenda, i dont know what it is. Another thing, if it was the bird why would they not even want hiking, horse back riding, kite flying or anything on the beach. it doesnt make sense to me at all. anyone else know why?

 

The Snowy Plover issue is just another example of the way environmentalists can pick a specific species to deliberately shut an area down. In no way is the Plover at all "endangered" as a species. If you go to Mono Lake for example, there are thousands of them!

To say Plovers are "endangered" just because there have never been many of them at Pismo, is like saying we need to shut Yosemite down because elephants are an "endangered" species there. Pismo is not now, nor has it ever been the Plovers prime habitat.

Decisions on wildlife/wildlands preservation need to be made based on good science and just plain common sense (I am a professional biologist by the way) . The Milk Vetch issue at Glamis, is another example of how the endangered species act can be abused by unscrupulous groups with an agenda.

 

Basically it comes down to becoming involved, supporting Blue Ribbon Coalition, freinds of oceano dunes..but right now we are just treading water keeping these places open. It is time to become more agressive we have the numbers, it is time to start taking back and putting the sierra club on the defensive...but to do that we need to show that we can take care of what we have..that is hard to do if you look at the mess at competion bump broken glass and trash left in piles...now how do you defend that. That reflects on all of us, a few pictures of that mess and it shoots down the good that we do as a group. I am shure all of you have been in the bathrooms out there... what is that all about why is it nessesary to trash something that we are all paying for.
Each trip I make to Pismo and I average about once a month, I make one ride with a trash bag and most of the time i can come back with it half full. So how can we ask to open up more when we can't take care of what we allready have.
Now what is it with all the caution tape fences....Christ the last time out I felt like a mouse in a maze just tring to get out into the dunes from the beach...reminds me of the oklahoma land grab...I mean some people have a half acre lot hosed off with one toy hauler sitting in the middle...they even had one of the fore mentioned stinking bathrooms roped off...now thats and idiot i don't care who you are thats plain stupidity there!!! Hell I am out in the dunes after an hour ride, and come back to find my own trailer roped off on all four sides, what the hell......That kind of crap has got to go...man can I get on a roll.... but I am sure this is old news.... but until we can police ourselves we are sunk!!!
Most of us have 10,000 or more invested in this, to let it come to more closures is a shame.....just my 2 cents[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]