I just got back from a weekend at Tasker's Gap ORV area (Off-Road Vehicle). It was my first time. Let me say one thing:

THIS IS ROCK-KNOCKER'S HEAVEN!

I don't know how the NVTRA (Northern Virginia Trail Rider's Association) does it! There were rocks of all sizes. Other ORV areas should follow the Tasker's Gap example. Eliminate erosion problems by covering the trails with rocks, rocks, and more rocks from 10 pounds on up to boulder-size. My visit came shortly after a NVTRA work-weekend, and it appeared that they had brought in several hundred more truckloads of stone. They also have constructed a number of really nice bridges, at least one spanned over - ROCKS! You would think that the place was located near the town of Bedrock, rather than Woodstock. I was surprised that we didn't run across Fred Flintstone!

One of my favorite stretches was the 8.5 mile road between the campground and ORV area. Someone named it "Rocky Road," which really wasn't too clever. There is another portion called "Bent-Rim Road," which was appropriately named. But none of the different trails was more challenging than "Stonehenge." It was comprised of nothing but rocks from 100 pounds on up - absolutely no dirt beneath you! Someone had set up a very nice picnic area, called "Rockola Cafe."

Tasker's Gap had a great mud bog, off of "Rocky Road." It was deeper than many quads can handle, so take a winch - AND A CAMERA! You'll have a lot of fun there.

Tasker's Gap promises to get even better! There were still some dirt trails with just a splattering of stone. BUT that may change soon, maybe after the next NVTRA meeting. Keep up the good work guys!

My trip occurred on the first day of deer hunting in Virginia. I was sadly disappointed. I am not a hunter, but I was sorely upset by the lack of progress in the sport. I mean these are big, tough, manly men! But they dress in "camoflage ensembles" for color-blind animals, and they splash on deer urine, as if it were cologne! Why? So they can climb up a tree and wait for some stupid animal to walk in front of them so they can shoot it? Come on! Get with it! Where is the sport? This is almost the 21st century!

That brings me to another point. We have a right to bear arms. That is a fact. That was preserved to us by our national constitution, right? The Second Amendment gives Amnerican citizens the right to defend themselves, right? And that includes the right to defend ourselves from a corrupt federal government, if that ever happens. Right? Let me ask you one thing. How can we defend ourselves from the Federal Government without fully automatic weapons? HMMMMMMMM? Have you ever seen a Ranger Platoon in action? Do you think a band of deer hunters would have a chance against such fire-power? HMMMMMMMM? I don't think so. The government says we don't NEED automatics weapons, doesn't it? The government has banned the sale of automatic weapons, right? Why?

Sportsman have argued that automatic weapons can be used in sport. BUT ARE THEY??? No. That gets me back to deer hunting. Is it really sporting to ambush some poor dumb animal? I mean - deer don't even know they are involved in the sport! They're just looking for something to eat, or some company. No, it isn't really sporting! Sorry, but it isn't. How manly is it just to shoot some stupid animal that doesn't even know you're there?

At Tasker's Gap, I saw hunter after hunter squandering their resources. They had guns and ATVs. They would park their ATVs and stand by the trail waiting for some stupid deer to wander by. Then, BLAM! And Bambi's Mother is dead. Some sport.

It's time to turn deer-hunting into a sport. Let's have TWO contestants: the hunter AND the deer. One hunter had a gun mount on his ATV, but all he used it for was to carry his gun! What in the world was he thinking? The manufacturer had built a "U" sight at the gun-barrel end of the holder. It was perfect, but the hunter didn't have a clue. With that type of mount, he could use his gun while riding his ATV. He wouldn't have to just sit around, smelling of deer urine, until some stupid animal wandered in front of him. He could chase them with his ATV!!! NOW THAT'S SPORTING! It is also ideal for automatic weapons. Imagine having an AK45 in that holster, wired to your control panel. Chase a deer, or a whole heard of them, and BLATaBLATaBLATaBLAT!!! Tracers bullets dart through the night while you chase down your prey! Put a bayonett on the end of your assault rifle and you can OFF the furry boogers up close and personal! NOW THAT WOULD BE A RUSH! It would also solve the problem of getting your deer carcass back to camp. At night, a smart hunter could even use night goggles (Fishermen use sonar and radar!). Cool, right? IT'S TIME TO GET WITH IT!

Make deer hunting sporting. Make sports rifles out of assault weapons. Use your Second Amendment protections properly!


[This message has been edited by kclayd (edited 11-29-1999).]

 

Geez Louise Clay!

You sure came back with a vengeance. Not gonna get into the deer hunting or arms fray, but I want to know more about the trails. How was the riding? How long and far did you ride each day? What are the specific obstacles and how did you traverse them? How did all the machines fare? What are the grades like? What are the campsites like? Did Tree Farmer join you?

It would be nice to see yours and Steve's write-ups.

 

Man, SCMan, we missed you. Just me and the Legendary Steve Thompson made the journey.

Note: The views expressed in my post were not those of Steve Thompson or ATVConnection.

Steve enjoyed the mud bog, and I took some great pictures of him. I'm afraid they may soon fill the bog with rocks, so if you want to take a muddy dip, you better go fast.

After awhile, you sort of get used to the clattering sound of rocks against your rims and skid guards. Of course, Steve's skid guard is untouched. I hated it! Steve had such a good time! It wasn't fair! He even wanted to stop off at a rock quarry on the way back! I'm sorry, but I just couldn't take it.

No, neither Tree Farmer nor any of the NVTRA greeted us - not even Steve Thompson! Man, you would have thought they would at least want one of Steve's autographed pictures! I was disappointed, but I figured they must have been deer hunting.

My deer hunting and gun control ideas came to me as I was rattling along the trails. I was inspired, I guess.

Steve and I actually found a couple of nice trails Saturday evening. They just had a few rocks, nothing to write home about. That will probably change, though.

We found an illegal trail across the road and followed it under starlight for several miles. It was one of the better trails! Didn't look like it had been traveled on for awhile, though. Many of the other legal trails looked as though they had not been ridden on recently, either.

Steve found a trail on a powerline easement that led to a lookout tower on top of the mountain. The trail started out behind the camping area. That was the only good hill climb around.

There was no user's fee - no camping fee! But, we got our money's worth. Some guy with a camper decided to run his generator until 2 a.m. Then, some of the more rugged guys across the way decided to camp out in their van, and they kept their motor running all night to keep warm.

Ask Steve about "Stonehenge" or the "Rock Garden."

No real hills in Tasker's Gap( a few short inclines): No real whoops: just one good mud bog (very good): so many rockkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkks that it stopped being fun after riding awhile. We drove about 90 miles there Fri-Sat(including the illegal trail), about 26 miles Friday night.


[This message has been edited by kclayd (edited 11-29-1999).]

 

Kclayd, I'm glad you and Steve Thompson found Tasker's Gap, rode and returned safely.

Regarding deer season, you arrived the second weekend of the Virginia firearms season, not opening day. Saturday was the first day of the Maryland firearms deer season, accounting in part for my absence from your ride (by the way, I lifted and loaded a 150-pound doe (harvested by a companion) with the Pa-Paw's Game Hoist; this device really works as advertised; no strain, even with my severe case of Tasker's Gap shoulder).

I don't want to debate animal rights or gun rights with you here either; however, with all due respect, your facts aren't arrayed entirely correctly. "Automatic" firearms have been controlled in the US since the 1930's; furthermore none is legal for hunting anything anywhere anyway. "Sporting purposes" is not confined to hunting. And whitetail deer hunting is harder than you might imagine (I know!). There are more deer (and wild turkey) in the US today than there were at the time of Columbus' discovery, thanks to enlightened game management, including hunting as a management tool.

Not to be contentious, but: are you a vegetarian, Kclayd?

One word of caution: ride illegal trails around Tasker's Gap at the wrong time and the wrong place, and you'll have an opportunity practicing law in Federal court; further, you jeopardize the access ATVers now enjoy. I'd hate to see the trails we've worked so hard building and maintaining closed.

Advocacy and admonitions were not my objectives in this post; however, I cannot deny its appearnce. Let me again say I'm glad you and Steve found Tasker's Gap interesting; perhaps I can join you on a ride there someday; I tentatively plan on hosting a ride in April, 2000, the day before the American Motorcycle Association-sanctioned Little Fort Trail Ride; you're invited!

Tree Farmer

 

Thank you Tree Farmer,

Man, we missed you! Frankly, I don't see how you deer hunters take it! You mean the government tells you what weapons you can or can't use in your own sport? Why do you just take that? If we let the government tell us what weapons we can have, and when we can use them, then what use is the Second Amendment? How will we ever be able to defend ourselves from the tyranny of a corrupt government, if it controls our means of defense? I am surprised that people, especially you, are willing to let the government control your rights like that. Did the government tell Buffalo hunters what kind of guns they could use? Now, that was hunting! Ever see a picture of a buffalo hunter riding hard across the prairie on his mount with a powerful rifle aimed at his stampeding prey? You wouldn't find any of those hunters hiding in trees, splashed with buffalo urine, would you? Why can't we use our ATVs and our weapons (built in USA) the same way? Wouldn't that be a rush? Wouldn't that be sporting? Isn't that REALLY the American way? But, instead, we are told where we can ride, what guns we can have, when and where we can use them. Ho-Hum. Are we children to be told what we can or can't do by Uncle Bill and Aunt Hillary?

Do you really feel comfortable with having Bill Clinton, who was never even elected by a majority of our voters, telling you that you can't ride your ORV in National Forests? Do you really want him to be able to tell our gun manufacturers what type of guns they can make and sell to us? How about Al Gore? Have you been to an Army Navy Surplus lately? I have. I bought military goggles and insulated gloves. Guess where they were made? They were made in China! Think about it TreeFarmer. Next time you're sitting in some tree splashed with deer urine, with your perfectly able ATV parked idly by the trail, ask yourself why. If it weren't for comrade Bill, wouldn't you do it differently? Wouldn't you be the buffalo hunter of the 21st century? The government needs deer hunters to control the animal population, but it doesn't want them to be a threat. It limits their use of weapons and ORVs. Wonder why? Where have our freedoms gone?


[This message has been edited by kclayd (edited 11-30-1999).]

 

Kclayd, other debate tactic exist besides "reductio ad absurdum," reducing opposing arguments to absudities.

Knowing little of your background, I'd venture a guess you've had little exposure to the world of hunting and of firearms. Thus, snide dismissal of these areas appears easy for you; you're demolishing straw men, creatures of your own imagination, rather than reality.

Hunters certainly enjoy the same right of access afforded ATVers in our National Forests, including the Tasker's Gap ORV Area. If you genuinely wanted to learn about firearms and hunting from primary sources, I believe you could have approached any hunter you encountered and he would have gladly explained his equipment, techniques, and tactics to you. Your concept of the use of scents in hunting seems incorrect to me.

This Forum seems an inappropriate arena for gun rights or animal rights debate. The Second Amendment Right to Bear Arms is not absolute; as an attorney, you know the US Supreme Court decided so. Further, a distinction exists between a firearm and a weapon. Almost any object may become a weapon, depending upon its usage; e.g., a pencil may be stuck in your eye by an attacker who uses that inanimate object as a weapon.

As a meat-eater yourself, your stance against hunting appears hypocritical. If you're concerned about slaying animals to consume their flesh, let's visit one of Frank Perdue's poultry processing establishments; or, better yet, a Kosher slaugherhouse, some day.

I hope this is my last post on this subject on this topic: If you don't like firearms, fine; don't buy or use any. If you don't like hunting; then, don't hunt. Otherwise, I wonder at your motivation, purpose, intent, and expected results from castigating those who lawfully pursue their own interests in firearms and hunting. As an attorney, you're aware of the mechanisms available to you if you wish to change existing firearms and hunting laws.

Tree Farmer

[This message has been edited by Tree Farmer (edited 11-29-1999).]

 

Tree Farmer uses latin phrases so easily, that one must suspect whether HE is a lawyer, maybe a government lawyer? Maybe receiving a government pension?

We need deer hunting AND animal control. But do we really need - or want - big brother telling us what, when, and where we can exercise that right? Were the pilgrims told what weapons they could use, when they could hunt, or where they could ride their horses? Now, our government has taken those freedoms from us. We even have local governments suing legal gun manufacturers! The federal government is taking away our cigarettes, and its just a matter of time before they get our SUVs and ATVs. Where are ATCs now? Where is the Corvair? Read the thread "Where's the Brain," again. Lawyers couldn't do all those things if it weren't for big government!

Were you really suggesting that we all quietly accept whatever the Supreme Court tells us without question, and without protest? I think you need to look back at history. Remember it was the Supreme Court which was responsible for the Dred Scott decision, which led to an expansion of slavery and the War Between the States! And, it was the Supreme Court which was responsible for Plessy v. Ferguson, which institutionalized segregation and ultimately caused a racial rift in our country which still has yet to heal. Is that the leadership you want us to follow? Who elected the Supreme Court anyway? Isn't this supposed to be a democracy? Isn't the Supreme Court a wishy-washy institution? Remember how the Supreme Court reversed itself on the issue of interstate commerce during the New Deal, because FDR threatened to pack it with another 9 justices of his choosing, if the Court didn't change its ruling to the one he wanted? Now, the federal government can control just about anything it wants by arguing that the issue has some "minimal impact" on interstate commerce. Is that okay with you? The Supreme Court is nothing but a pawn of big brother. And THEY are all lawyers, all government lawyers! AND NOT ONE OF THEM HAS AN ATV! Think about it! Does Bill Clinton have an ATV? Al Gore? How about the Secretary of the Interior?

Do you really believe that the government should tell us what types of arms we have a right to bear? Do you really believe that there is something wrong with vegetarians (I am not one by the way)? Do you believe that the government should restrict deer hunters in their sport in such a manner that they could never pose a threat to the government's authority? Do you really think that we should be buying military supplies from China? What do animal rights have to do with deer hunting? I didn't mention that issue! Please explain how the two are connected.

I think it is sad that the government can restrict our freedoms to such an extent that a group of grown men, splashed with deer urine, would have to spend the night together in their van, sleeping through a cold night, with their motor and heater running. Now that's nasty! I'm sorry, but it is. Those guys should be allowed to use their ingenuity, ATVs, and American firearms to hunt the way they want, not the way they are told. How can you disagree with that?


[This message has been edited by kclayd (edited 11-29-1999).]

 

wow,, this really is off the subject... ha..

i agree with clay alot, though i'm always weary of becoming an outspoken enemy of the govt.

i've been around hunters all my life, though i just went hunting for the first time on thanksgiving. i know all about the pee, the stands, the clothes... and i went for about 4 hours ,, and let me tell you, IT WAS THE MOST BORING 4 HOURS OF MY LIFE.!! i kept hearing about all the fun, and the excitement it was, though i guess i just never saw that..

though, this is what i learned from it, it appeared to me, not to say that this is true for the majority, but that these guys really just enjoy getting out in Gods fine creation, and they tend to use hunting as an excuse or reason.

i personally don't need the "i'm a man" and "i'm going to kill something" excuse to get out and have a good time... i go camping, 4wheeling, fishing, etc...

also, once again, i saw nothing that skillful or manly about sitting in a tree and waiting for a deer thats stupid enough to walk in front of you. i discovered that for me, i enjoy spend my time outside other ways.

once again, i'm in no way implying this applies to anyone on this forum, it's just the feeling i got with guys i went with. and sorry for carrying on this topic even longer, i just couldn't resist, feel free to call me an idiot..

-brian.

 

We missed you at Tasker's Gap, Brian. Looks like no one else made it - just me and the Legendary Steve Thompson.

I know what you mean about the outdoors. We rode late Saturday night, and the sky was beautiful! There was very little so-called "light pollution" so we could see constellations, stars, planets. That was great. When we got back, we started a camp fire and talked about our ride. You would have enjoyed that.

Keep in touch!

 

Brian,if you would of even so much as had a shot at a deer,I doubt that you'd ever be bored with hunting again.I wish you could of at least got off a shot.Your Adrenalin would of been a pumping BIG TIME.KCLAYD,im with you on this one.I for one am SICK and TIRED of the Government sticking their nose in places they have very little knowledge about.The Government is so far up our butts right now,they probably know how big a poop we take when we use the bathroom.GOVERNMENT IS TOOOOOOOOOO BIG.----BILL

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