Pa , this sucks
Aug 12, 2001 | 11:56 PM
#51
Pro Rider
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Well I guess that there are some changes going on. I am 34 and have been riding the same area on a pretty regular basis for over 20 years. I started riding this area when I got my first dirt bike at the age of 12. This is an area that you will allways see other riders and people were riding there well before I got my first bike.
I took 2 buddies riding today, both jsut got into ATVing and have new rides. Spent the morning and part of the afternoon riding. We headed back to the vehicles to go home and who was sitting there but 2 game wardens. I pulled up to my vehicle took off my helmet said hello and the only response I got was " give me some identification sir". After a few minutes of listening I was informed that I was going to receive a 100.00$ fine for being on State Game Lands.
The area we were riding does border State Game Lands and we were parked on the game lands ( the parking area is directly off of a township road and we were at the most 60ft away from the road ). We did ride in a very small area around the parking lot, before heading out on the trail, I even said so to the Warden. He informed me that it is illegal to unload an ATV on state game lands without a special permit. He also informed me that even though this mountain had served as a riding area for many many years that the Game Commission was now going to put an end to it.
This riding spot is a maze of pipeline, powerline and logging trails with some township property and private property mixed in. Sometimes the areas being logged out are posetd but there are other logging areas that I personally have talked with people and was given the ok to ride. Parts of the private property is no trespassing but there are areas that the owners allow people to ride. I have never been told or asked if it was ok to be on the township property so I will admit fault there. I have personally seen people head out on ATVs during hunting season from the same spot.
I concider myself a very concientious rider,I or the group I ride with do not litter we all are registered we do not go blazing new trails. The 100.00$ fine bums me out a bit but not nearly as much as the fact that my favorite and most often used riding area is now gone. In the time it took us to load up after this happened the Wardens ticketed 2 more people. Am I out of line or wrong for thinking I just got kicked in the teeth, is this my fault for not understanding the laws well enough ? The Warden had said that it is our responsibility to know the laws of where we are, ok I can understand that but when you've been riding an area for over 20 years with no trouble and then all of a sudden they say sorry thats it I find it to be amazing.
3 years ago there was some trouble with vandalism on a logging truck. A State Police Officer stopped as a group of approx 15 of us was unloading in the same spot and asked us a few questions about if we had seen anything. After speaking with us he asked if when we were riding up there if we see anything going on if we would make the call, he said we didnt seem like the kind to make trouble and to let someone know if there was something wrong going on. I asked the Warden today why wouldnt that Officer had said you guys shouldnt be here or this area is illegal to ride in. I was told thats not his job.
This just really makes me angry. Im paying more to ride than ever before and at the same time being fined and kicked out of riding areas that have been there for years. Someone tell me again, what is happening good for ATVing.
Not one Damn thing.
I took 2 buddies riding today, both jsut got into ATVing and have new rides. Spent the morning and part of the afternoon riding. We headed back to the vehicles to go home and who was sitting there but 2 game wardens. I pulled up to my vehicle took off my helmet said hello and the only response I got was " give me some identification sir". After a few minutes of listening I was informed that I was going to receive a 100.00$ fine for being on State Game Lands.
The area we were riding does border State Game Lands and we were parked on the game lands ( the parking area is directly off of a township road and we were at the most 60ft away from the road ). We did ride in a very small area around the parking lot, before heading out on the trail, I even said so to the Warden. He informed me that it is illegal to unload an ATV on state game lands without a special permit. He also informed me that even though this mountain had served as a riding area for many many years that the Game Commission was now going to put an end to it.
This riding spot is a maze of pipeline, powerline and logging trails with some township property and private property mixed in. Sometimes the areas being logged out are posetd but there are other logging areas that I personally have talked with people and was given the ok to ride. Parts of the private property is no trespassing but there are areas that the owners allow people to ride. I have never been told or asked if it was ok to be on the township property so I will admit fault there. I have personally seen people head out on ATVs during hunting season from the same spot.
I concider myself a very concientious rider,I or the group I ride with do not litter we all are registered we do not go blazing new trails. The 100.00$ fine bums me out a bit but not nearly as much as the fact that my favorite and most often used riding area is now gone. In the time it took us to load up after this happened the Wardens ticketed 2 more people. Am I out of line or wrong for thinking I just got kicked in the teeth, is this my fault for not understanding the laws well enough ? The Warden had said that it is our responsibility to know the laws of where we are, ok I can understand that but when you've been riding an area for over 20 years with no trouble and then all of a sudden they say sorry thats it I find it to be amazing.
3 years ago there was some trouble with vandalism on a logging truck. A State Police Officer stopped as a group of approx 15 of us was unloading in the same spot and asked us a few questions about if we had seen anything. After speaking with us he asked if when we were riding up there if we see anything going on if we would make the call, he said we didnt seem like the kind to make trouble and to let someone know if there was something wrong going on. I asked the Warden today why wouldnt that Officer had said you guys shouldnt be here or this area is illegal to ride in. I was told thats not his job.
This just really makes me angry. Im paying more to ride than ever before and at the same time being fined and kicked out of riding areas that have been there for years. Someone tell me again, what is happening good for ATVing.
Not one Damn thing.
Aug 13, 2001 | 02:28 AM
#52
Range Rover
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 200
Likes: 0
Scram 500 Man,
Let me guess, the "Lemon House", right? Yeah, they got us there last year, only it was the township cops and I got a $25 fine. Here is a prime example of why we need more trails. The "Lemon House" is an out of the way place, close to a large city that COULD be opened up for ATV use. However, it won't ever be legal to ride there. This is because the state, or more specifically the DCNR, won't bother to make some new trails. They just don't care about us.
I've been paying into the "ATV fund" for at least 6 years and haven't seen squat for my money. The last ride we went on, up at Bald Eagle state forest, the trail was so poorly marked (by that I mean not at all) that we ended up getting lost as least five times before finding our way back to the truck. Oh yes, I forgot. They moved the trailhead about 1/2 mile down the road from where it was on the map we got from their web site. Nice, huh?
Mind you there are at least two places in the state where the trails are well marked. One is Michaux (provided you stay on the easy and more difficult trails) and the other is Sproul. The marking needs to be good at Sproul or you'll get hopelessly lost. Other than that, I could spend what's in my pocket right now and double what the DCNR spent on the trail markers.
Maybe with this new law they have, things will get better. But for right now I'm not holding my breath.
Let me guess, the "Lemon House", right? Yeah, they got us there last year, only it was the township cops and I got a $25 fine. Here is a prime example of why we need more trails. The "Lemon House" is an out of the way place, close to a large city that COULD be opened up for ATV use. However, it won't ever be legal to ride there. This is because the state, or more specifically the DCNR, won't bother to make some new trails. They just don't care about us.
I've been paying into the "ATV fund" for at least 6 years and haven't seen squat for my money. The last ride we went on, up at Bald Eagle state forest, the trail was so poorly marked (by that I mean not at all) that we ended up getting lost as least five times before finding our way back to the truck. Oh yes, I forgot. They moved the trailhead about 1/2 mile down the road from where it was on the map we got from their web site. Nice, huh?
Mind you there are at least two places in the state where the trails are well marked. One is Michaux (provided you stay on the easy and more difficult trails) and the other is Sproul. The marking needs to be good at Sproul or you'll get hopelessly lost. Other than that, I could spend what's in my pocket right now and double what the DCNR spent on the trail markers.
Maybe with this new law they have, things will get better. But for right now I'm not holding my breath.
Aug 13, 2001 | 10:50 AM
#53
Trailblazer
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Scram,
Do you ever ride up by Big Murph? That's where we usually go. We were riding from there over to the Lemon House. Hubby likes to go over there, but I don't. I'd rather stay where it's somewhat legal. We leave right from our house to go, so if you would like to go with us sometime, just let us know. We've never been bothered. Yet. I'm waiting for it though. There's also a little place off of Mill Run right after the tunnel. It's on the right hand side. There's a little circle there for playin around, then there's some trails back in there. The guys that work at Barnhart's ride there sometimes. We haven't been bothered there either.
I have to agree with Hyper. Sproul is one of the best legal riding spots in PA. The trails are definitely marked good. If you're willing to make the 2 1/2 to 3 hour drive up there (From Altoona), and spend the weekend camping, it's worth it. Some of the guys from PaAtving.com are planning a trip there the 14,15,16 of Sept. If anyone is interested in coming with us, let us know. The more the merrier!
Hopefully we'll get some new trails with all this money we're having to pay in. Don't they realize that even if they don't build more legal trails, we're still going to ride?? Just one more way for them to take away some good clean fun.
Do you ever ride up by Big Murph? That's where we usually go. We were riding from there over to the Lemon House. Hubby likes to go over there, but I don't. I'd rather stay where it's somewhat legal. We leave right from our house to go, so if you would like to go with us sometime, just let us know. We've never been bothered. Yet. I'm waiting for it though. There's also a little place off of Mill Run right after the tunnel. It's on the right hand side. There's a little circle there for playin around, then there's some trails back in there. The guys that work at Barnhart's ride there sometimes. We haven't been bothered there either.
I have to agree with Hyper. Sproul is one of the best legal riding spots in PA. The trails are definitely marked good. If you're willing to make the 2 1/2 to 3 hour drive up there (From Altoona), and spend the weekend camping, it's worth it. Some of the guys from PaAtving.com are planning a trip there the 14,15,16 of Sept. If anyone is interested in coming with us, let us know. The more the merrier!
Hopefully we'll get some new trails with all this money we're having to pay in. Don't they realize that even if they don't build more legal trails, we're still going to ride?? Just one more way for them to take away some good clean fun.
Aug 13, 2001 | 11:51 AM
#54
Pro Rider
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
WHAT ARE Y'ALL COMPLAINING ABOUT?
I wish that they would make it mandatory to register ATV's here in Indiana, and put the money to use!!! We have no way of identitying ATV's here, and we have one (1) state run property here. It opened THIS year!
There are NO ATV clubs within 2 hours of here, NO riding areas period within 3 hours, and the only state ran program is 3.5 hours from here. In all of Indiana there is a whopping 3 places to ride that are open to the public. ALL are in central-southern Indiana. I grew up not 10 minutes from Haspins (the best of the riding areas, and it was great. Now that I am 150 miles north of there, it is hard to find time to get down there. You guys have named what... 10 different riding areas, and HUNDREDS of miles of trails. I would kill for that opportunity. At least that way, if I have to drive 100+ miles to go ride, I can ride different trails each weekend, instead of the same ones week in and week out.
Not to mention the fact that everyone can complain on here, but who has written a single letter to a representative or anyone how has control on what is going on? The Gov't isn't going to go looking for opinions of how to spend your money, you have to give them opinions, and you have to do it in a better manner than you are on here, or you will just further out "bad name" as ATVer's.
I wish that they would make it mandatory to register ATV's here in Indiana, and put the money to use!!! We have no way of identitying ATV's here, and we have one (1) state run property here. It opened THIS year!
There are NO ATV clubs within 2 hours of here, NO riding areas period within 3 hours, and the only state ran program is 3.5 hours from here. In all of Indiana there is a whopping 3 places to ride that are open to the public. ALL are in central-southern Indiana. I grew up not 10 minutes from Haspins (the best of the riding areas, and it was great. Now that I am 150 miles north of there, it is hard to find time to get down there. You guys have named what... 10 different riding areas, and HUNDREDS of miles of trails. I would kill for that opportunity. At least that way, if I have to drive 100+ miles to go ride, I can ride different trails each weekend, instead of the same ones week in and week out.
Not to mention the fact that everyone can complain on here, but who has written a single letter to a representative or anyone how has control on what is going on? The Gov't isn't going to go looking for opinions of how to spend your money, you have to give them opinions, and you have to do it in a better manner than you are on here, or you will just further out "bad name" as ATVer's.
Aug 13, 2001 | 03:00 PM
#55
Range Rover
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
the key is to organize a representative ATV body to speak out for our activity. If these moronic environmentalist wackos can get their way, it's because they organize and are usually not the typical drunk, littering, tobacco-chewing ATVer always seen at Cochranton Poker Runs...! Let's face it, our "sport" also involves those groups of back-woods hoopies who speed down dirt roads, etc. and ruin it for all of us. We'll never change this.
What kills me is how society generalizes all of us (myself included!). For instance, if you see a boater speed by in a boat, do you assume ALL boaters are morons? No. If you see a horse and rider go speeding by littering or ruining a trail, do you call them idiots? No.
It's always the ATVers that suffer. But let's look around. Let's look at all the people who just feel some need to "modify" their quads with loud mufflers, etc. and go making such horrible noise! Now THAT'S pathetic. Seriously, we all just need to stop and consider these things. We also have to remember that the LESS people see of us, the BETTER. We have to stop littering. We have to stop riding on posted property. We have to clean up the woods and then have a press release. The Hoopies have to quit tearing up fields and leaving beer cans in the woods (incidentally, have you ever stopped to consider how f***ing STUPID and poorly-raised someone has to be to litter the woods?)
Anyway, our activity unfortunately involves a lot of people who basically are rebels and are EXACTLY the kind of people cops love to find, harrass and ticket!
God help us all.
What kills me is how society generalizes all of us (myself included!). For instance, if you see a boater speed by in a boat, do you assume ALL boaters are morons? No. If you see a horse and rider go speeding by littering or ruining a trail, do you call them idiots? No.
It's always the ATVers that suffer. But let's look around. Let's look at all the people who just feel some need to "modify" their quads with loud mufflers, etc. and go making such horrible noise! Now THAT'S pathetic. Seriously, we all just need to stop and consider these things. We also have to remember that the LESS people see of us, the BETTER. We have to stop littering. We have to stop riding on posted property. We have to clean up the woods and then have a press release. The Hoopies have to quit tearing up fields and leaving beer cans in the woods (incidentally, have you ever stopped to consider how f***ing STUPID and poorly-raised someone has to be to litter the woods?)
Anyway, our activity unfortunately involves a lot of people who basically are rebels and are EXACTLY the kind of people cops love to find, harrass and ticket!
God help us all.
Aug 14, 2001 | 10:31 AM
#56
Range Rover
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 200
Likes: 0
Kodiak Amy,
Go to the Allegheny National Forest, NOW! It takes less time to go there than it would to go to to Susquehannock (because of I-80). I know, It took us 7 hours to go to Susquehannock and back yesterday. If you go to the ANF, try the Marienville Trailbike trail. Also try the upper half of the Rocky Gap trail. You won't be disappointed. The rest of the trails are pretty tame, suited to high speed/low drag type riding.
Celeste was impressed with the Susquehannock trail, as was I. It's actually marked! You can see the earth moving equipment at all of the parking areas, so I know it's maintained. We prefer the "high speed/low drag" type of riding over the "technical 4x4" stuff. Although, I have been known to take a "techincal" trail every now and then.
Go to the Allegheny National Forest, NOW! It takes less time to go there than it would to go to to Susquehannock (because of I-80). I know, It took us 7 hours to go to Susquehannock and back yesterday. If you go to the ANF, try the Marienville Trailbike trail. Also try the upper half of the Rocky Gap trail. You won't be disappointed. The rest of the trails are pretty tame, suited to high speed/low drag type riding.
Celeste was impressed with the Susquehannock trail, as was I. It's actually marked! You can see the earth moving equipment at all of the parking areas, so I know it's maintained. We prefer the "high speed/low drag" type of riding over the "technical 4x4" stuff. Although, I have been known to take a "techincal" trail every now and then.
Aug 14, 2001 | 10:37 AM
#57
Trailblazer
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Mike,
We're in the midst of planning a trip to ANF. Not sure when though. We'd like to go for the weekend, and do some camping. We're limited to our weekends being every other one (since his kids go see their mom on those weekends). Hopefully we'll get there this year, if not, most definitely next year. If anyone is planning a trip up there before it gets too cold for camping, let us know. I believe we're going to Sproul the 14,15,16 of Sept with PaAtving.com guys. I thought Sproul was pretty nice. The trails are marked pretty good, but you always have those side trails that aren't supposed to be there that will screw you up! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
We're in the midst of planning a trip to ANF. Not sure when though. We'd like to go for the weekend, and do some camping. We're limited to our weekends being every other one (since his kids go see their mom on those weekends). Hopefully we'll get there this year, if not, most definitely next year. If anyone is planning a trip up there before it gets too cold for camping, let us know. I believe we're going to Sproul the 14,15,16 of Sept with PaAtving.com guys. I thought Sproul was pretty nice. The trails are marked pretty good, but you always have those side trails that aren't supposed to be there that will screw you up! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
Aug 14, 2001 | 01:03 PM
#58
Pro Rider
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 344
Likes: 0
I inquired about my son riding his dirtbike on the ATV trails in Pa & theres no age limit, no sticker required so I guess that means dirt bikes dont contribute to ATV trails but get to ride on them anyway for free & no isurance reqd etc? Is this correct or am I missing something? If this is correct is that fair & how did it end up that way? Also did you ever see how badly a dirt bike tears up a track or trail vs a quad, it's night & day difference. Nothing against dirt bikes, but just curious.
Thanks
Jim Maloney 98 400 Scrambler
http://photos.yahoo.com/jim400scram
Thanks
Jim Maloney 98 400 Scrambler
http://photos.yahoo.com/jim400scram
Aug 14, 2001 | 04:30 PM
#59
Trailblazer
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Jim,
I do know that dirt bikes are not allowed on Sproul State Forest Trails. I'm not sure about the other state trails in PA. I believe they have separate trails in Allegheny National Forest, but I'm not positive.
And you are making the same point I am. Doesn't it seem just a bit unfair??
I do know that dirt bikes are not allowed on Sproul State Forest Trails. I'm not sure about the other state trails in PA. I believe they have separate trails in Allegheny National Forest, but I'm not positive.
And you are making the same point I am. Doesn't it seem just a bit unfair??
