Minnesota, 4/06, Nemadji, Danbury, Gandy Dancer or ????????
#1
03-29-2002, 12:27 AM
The time for decision is drawing near.
Is the Nemadji Forest presumed closed? Is it actually closed? Or will it be closed? Is it presumed open unless posted closed?
Have the Minnesotans for Responsible Recreation won this one already without legislation? Does Joe Souchery approve of the MRR advertising on KSTP during the "Morning Spin"?
Have the Minnesota riders turned tail and headed for Danbury, Wi? (Over 30 miles out of the way) Do ATVers like Casinos?
Will there actually be a ride on 4/06? Will Chris Carter have a job come September?
Didn't we go through this last year? Somebody called the DNR and they said the Forest was closed. Somebody else said, "The law says we can ride 4/1/02 (so we did) and there were no trail closure signs posted anywhere nor were there any postings in the newspaper (public notice).
So.... what's up guys? Is there a meeting point, a time and a destination? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
Is the Nemadji Forest presumed closed? Is it actually closed? Or will it be closed? Is it presumed open unless posted closed?
Have the Minnesotans for Responsible Recreation won this one already without legislation? Does Joe Souchery approve of the MRR advertising on KSTP during the "Morning Spin"?
Have the Minnesota riders turned tail and headed for Danbury, Wi? (Over 30 miles out of the way) Do ATVers like Casinos?
Will there actually be a ride on 4/06? Will Chris Carter have a job come September?
Didn't we go through this last year? Somebody called the DNR and they said the Forest was closed. Somebody else said, "The law says we can ride 4/1/02 (so we did) and there were no trail closure signs posted anywhere nor were there any postings in the newspaper (public notice).
So.... what's up guys? Is there a meeting point, a time and a destination? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
#2
03-29-2002, 12:51 AM
Here's the scoop that I have recieved so far. The MN trails that are designated "ATV" trails are open on posted dates with the exception of Red Top due to the county road restrictions. This coming from the regional office in Brainerd. Nemadji, I was told by the regional office in Moose Lake that the only way to tell if the trails will be open to ATV traffic on non-desiganted trails is to call within a few days of the ride. This being because of the recent BS going on at Capital Hill. I thought about riding Danbury, but this is not a possibility either since I was told today by the rangers office for Burnett County that the trails are open to ATV's as long as they are being groomed. This isn't happening now with the lack of snow in the area and multiple bare spots. Hence, trails are closed. Danbury has only 1 designated trail and that is a summer time trail only.
I really feel like $h!t after trying to get everyone together for a ride and now things have done nothing short of falling apart. The best we can do is to pay extra close attention to this thread to see for sure if the trails will be open in Nemadji and make a last minute jump at the chance to ride.
I really feel like $h!t after trying to get everyone together for a ride and now things have done nothing short of falling apart. The best we can do is to pay extra close attention to this thread to see for sure if the trails will be open in Nemadji and make a last minute jump at the chance to ride.
#3
03-29-2002, 11:56 AM
#4
03-29-2002, 12:01 PM
My email to Chris:
Chris,
I don't believe that the majority of Minnesotans support banning ATVs to State trails. We need more State trails, that is true. And more State trails would of its own accord reduce a lot of the cross country travel. But consider some of the ways ATVs are used:
1) Hauling bear bait into the woods.
2) Hauling game out of the woods.
3) Handicapped access to remote areas
4) DNR use for access to lakes and ponds for water testing, mosquito reduction, surveying, etc
5) Cabin owners hauling groceries and other supplies to remote locations.
6) Parents taking their kids out to view nature and perhaps go camping off the beaten trail.
The list goes on and on and the fact is--State trails won't get people to where they need to go. How many Minnesotans have cabins where they've found trails they can use that were left behind by hunters or perhaps from the DNR accessing the survey boundary markers in the State forests? These people want and will continue to keep using these trails regardless of what legislation may be passed because there won't be any way to enforce the laws given the amount of staffing it would require from the State.
If ATVs caused irreparable damage to the environment I would 100% support banning ATVs to State trails. I hunt and fish and I care about preserving the environment for the future of our children. But the fact that a "heavily used" trail will show no sign of ever having been used by ATVs after just a couple of short years, makes the whole discussion a mute point in my opinion.
In our society our kids grow up not knowing where meat comes from and not understanding the realities of nature. Nature is harsh. The world was made to sustain floods, volcanoes and other disasters and it has an amazing ability to recover. ATVs impact on the environment is insignificant in the scheme of things. Imagine if the early pioneers weren't allowed to travel the woods and prairies on their way to Minnesota because their wagons left ruts in the ground! Our forefathers would scoff at us.
Should we stop bombing Afghanistan because the bombs leave marks on the ground? No matter how you look at it, any argument to stop ATV use in State lands, if it's based upon environmental impact, is going to reek of hypocrisy. Man impacts the environment from the shear act of living. It's fact.
Chris,
I don't believe that the majority of Minnesotans support banning ATVs to State trails. We need more State trails, that is true. And more State trails would of its own accord reduce a lot of the cross country travel. But consider some of the ways ATVs are used:
1) Hauling bear bait into the woods.
2) Hauling game out of the woods.
3) Handicapped access to remote areas
4) DNR use for access to lakes and ponds for water testing, mosquito reduction, surveying, etc
5) Cabin owners hauling groceries and other supplies to remote locations.
6) Parents taking their kids out to view nature and perhaps go camping off the beaten trail.
The list goes on and on and the fact is--State trails won't get people to where they need to go. How many Minnesotans have cabins where they've found trails they can use that were left behind by hunters or perhaps from the DNR accessing the survey boundary markers in the State forests? These people want and will continue to keep using these trails regardless of what legislation may be passed because there won't be any way to enforce the laws given the amount of staffing it would require from the State.
If ATVs caused irreparable damage to the environment I would 100% support banning ATVs to State trails. I hunt and fish and I care about preserving the environment for the future of our children. But the fact that a "heavily used" trail will show no sign of ever having been used by ATVs after just a couple of short years, makes the whole discussion a mute point in my opinion.
In our society our kids grow up not knowing where meat comes from and not understanding the realities of nature. Nature is harsh. The world was made to sustain floods, volcanoes and other disasters and it has an amazing ability to recover. ATVs impact on the environment is insignificant in the scheme of things. Imagine if the early pioneers weren't allowed to travel the woods and prairies on their way to Minnesota because their wagons left ruts in the ground! Our forefathers would scoff at us.
Should we stop bombing Afghanistan because the bombs leave marks on the ground? No matter how you look at it, any argument to stop ATV use in State lands, if it's based upon environmental impact, is going to reek of hypocrisy. Man impacts the environment from the shear act of living. It's fact.
#5
03-29-2002, 06:10 PM
Thor..
Its been a while..since last year! I look forward to another dash thru the woods this year!
I have been busy fighting the good fight on the DNRs website..I do think we have stoped them again this year but it was close..
I hope evereyone has notified their "house "reps to let them know the new deal is a NO DEAL
Hope to see you soon..
Bill
99 450es and 01 auto 5oo 'CAT
#6
03-29-2002, 06:23 PM
Bill,
I emailed ATVAM a few days ago asking them to send me a database of legislators and their email addresses. I want to build a form on the site where people can re-word a sample letter we provide and when they submit it it goes to all of the legislators. We could have 5000 - 10,000+ emails sent to each legislator in less than a week if we put this form on the site.
We used this approach on snowconnection.com when the stud issue arose and we were highly instrumental in fending off that legislation.
So far....no word from ATVAM.
I emailed ATVAM a few days ago asking them to send me a database of legislators and their email addresses. I want to build a form on the site where people can re-word a sample letter we provide and when they submit it it goes to all of the legislators. We could have 5000 - 10,000+ emails sent to each legislator in less than a week if we put this form on the site.
We used this approach on snowconnection.com when the stud issue arose and we were highly instrumental in fending off that legislation.
So far....no word from ATVAM.
#7
03-29-2002, 06:41 PM
Hope I can help..The officers have been very busy the last week...
Try Sonia Bartz at atvam.@aol.com she's the president and as been extremely helpfull in letting me know who, and when to contact..Right now the next vote is in the house and that's who we should be CALLING ..it has more weight than an e-mail...You can type minnesota house of Represenatives and get a list and numbers to call ..we have a few days..make the call and tell them the KINKEL amendment goes to far ...too fast.. and we do not support it.
The call will be to a machine ...state you are a voter in a district and be polite but firm.
get back if this doesn't work..
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#8
03-29-2002, 06:54 PM
#9
03-29-2002, 07:04 PM
Try http://www.atvam.org/news.html sorry I am not good at linking yet. I agree that we can flood a legislator with e-mails but so can MRR and the Wilderness Society. Sonia says a letter or phone call works better because its more personal...and in the end you are THEIR BOSS and they will listen. I have done both and got replies both times..only takes a minute amd we will all feel better sitting around the bon fire!!
I urge everyone to call...tell a friend..before it's too late!
#10
03-29-2002, 07:12 PM
Also do not e-mail Chris N. at the Pioneer Press...do better and e- mail HIS BOSS and ask for a retraction because of misleading journalism. Chris belongs to the ruffed grouse society and makes no bones about it. He dislikes atvs and does not want them in HIS woods.HE will probably trash your e-mail without caring to read it.