after a ten year performance nap, i would think bulding the first new hyperformance quad would be realistic.

 

Does'nt matter...It's all a matter of opinion and subjective. The only point I was trying too make was Honda had nothing too offer the public...it does not take years too throw a 450 engine into a 400ex chassis. I will leave it at that. Have a good day...[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img].

 

Hey Gary, why the hatred for Honda? If anything *you* should have a hatred for Yamaha....

How about all your comments in the past how Honda would never do it [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] I also particularly enjoyed all your comments calling BS on people talking about the YFZ before it's official release, especially since some of us knew it was coming since sometime around January.

Those of you who think this is purely a "reactionary" measure by Honda and think they whipped this quad together at the last second after the YFZ's announcement are obviously clueless. It takes more than a few months to present a production level quad with the refinement displayed, heck, in the pictures it's even got the 2004 model year stickers - do you really think they would have went to that much trouble on a one-off last second prototype for the show?

It's also pretty well known that Tim Farr was testing this thing long before Yamaha's announcement.

Even if it were reactionary, and even if it were merely a "400EX with a 450 engine" - The question has to be asked, what's wrong with that?

If it were reactionary - so what? They *are* building it, something many of you have been screaming they'd never do for 3 years now. What's wrong with competition? If there were only one dirtbike manufacturer, do you think they would have the level of refinement & performance they currently enjoy?

Just because Honda did not have to design a completely new chassis geometry to have a decent offering, in what way does that take away from the quad? Put one of the best engines on the market in the best chassis geometry on the market and how can you lose?

Anyone that knows their head from a hole in the ground can easily see that this is not a 400EX or 250R chassis with new engine mounts - although it does appear to share certain component designs - which from a racer standpoint is excellent.

This is really the one thing that keeps me from running out and buying a YFZ. With the TRX it appears I'll be able to keep the thousands of $$$ I've invested in aftermarket wheels, suspension, etc - just swing it over to the new quad, even interchange it with my EX whenever the need arises (I have several different setups, depending on what kind of racing I'm doing). With the Yamaha I would have to start over.

How can anyone possibly complain about either the YFZ or the TRX450R being made available? It amazes me how some of you can be putting such a negative spin on this year's quad announcements. I get the feeling many of you are new enough to the sport that you don't remember the 90's. If that's not the case, it must really suck to have as negative an attitude as you do.

 

hey atc250R, how do you think the xc crowd is going to like the new 450r? i've seen a few diehard honda guys buy the yfz, now the question is, do i switch to honda ? and why ? btw, was that your 450r i saw tricked out w/ elkas and AC products?

 

1986atc, that is the reason i haven't bought a yamaha yet either, if i can take $4000 dollars worth of a-arms and shocks and wheels, etc.. off my cdale and put them on the new honda 450r then i will be money ahead. when it's all said and done there will not be two cents difference in the motors and handling. it will boil down to after market shocks, a-arms, tires and most importantly "rider skill".

 

I have no resentment towards Honda. The only reason I haven't purchased a YZF is because of the hose job I went through on the 01 Raptor. I had and still have pictures of the YZF well before it was on the net....I knew it was coming. Prior too that, it would not surprise me one bit if I called the YZF BS....as you know, 99.9% of posts like that ARE BS. If Honda had a working prototype, why did we get a freaking sketch for the unveiling? Very fishy IMO....especially now it appears with basically a 400ex frame. By the way, the only complaint I had about my 400ex was it's gutless power....so I will be a potential candidate for a 450. But I will not jump on the brand loyal band wagon and state the 450 would have been available even if the YZF was not available. Again, Honda had no intentions of releasing the 450 until word of the YZF....and then they had no working chassis.....only stuff they were toying with....certainly not something with a time line attached. This is my only point....prove me wrong. I have not stated any complaints about new quads available, you may want too do some re-reading. It's nice too see Honda finally offer a higher performance atv....it's nice too be an enthusiast in the best time ever sport atving.

 

660bigdaddy -

Only time will tell how the 450R will be received by the XC racers.

I get a feeling it will work well. I'm guessing the changes Honda made to the engine will make the stock power delivery excellent for woods, I'm going to guess that Honda also cranked up the flywheel weight to make the engine more difficult to stall.

Kickstart does cause some concern, but I've been beat off the line so many times by kickstart bikes that I kinda consider them to be an advantage if tuned correctly so that they'll start fast. I've also had trouble with the e-start on my 400EX in the woods more than once, which has cost me several positions during a race.

The one place where the kicker will definitely be a disadvantage will be when you stall the quad on uphill off-cambers or in the muck.

Should you switch to Honda? Hard to say - if you're debating between a YFZ and a TRX for next season, the only thing a person can do is wait and see what the Honda is really like. One other thing I've learned from my 400EX experience is that I really like replacement parts prices on them. I'm guessing the 450R will be the same since the CRF also enjoys the inexpensive parts price schedule. This can be a big advantage if you've got a limited budget to work with.

Nope, not my 450R -- I just reposted a pic that came from Lewis at Atvconnection.

 

We finally got what we all wanted, 400ex chassis with a kick start 450r motor. A Yamaha knock off of a 250R cahssis with a 450 motor. How in the world, can all of you half empty sob's be complaining?

 

Glad Honda went with no electric start....thats one item etched off the list of possible things too fail. Don't need reverse either.

 

Gary - you know I've watched your posts for ever now.... You have such a negative attitude most of the time. I will agree on the reverse issue & I really like the idea of kick only, but I have also come to really like my magic button - so I'm still split on that one.

As far as the sketch - the only reason the sketch was released was to let enthusiasts know there was something since the dealer meeting was still more than a month away - they were hoping to save some sales since so many people were saying "Honda will never do it, so I'm buying a YFZ". Yes, I know for fact that American Honda & Yamaha both watch these messageboards & know people's feelings.

Only a sketch was released because Honda wanted to save the "thunder" for their dealers meeting. They have always operated this way & it actually surprised me that they even released the sketch.

As far as not having a working chassis - to the contrary, from what I understand, they had several working chassis candidates they had been testing for a good long while now. From what I understand, mostly just comparing Aluminum designs against a standard steel frame. I had info early this year that they had aluminum frames they were testing.. Again, you say it's fishy that they used a 400EX chassis as a platform, I have to ask why is that fishy? Why fix something that's not broke - adjust, tweak, and refine. Aftermarket manufacturers have been doing this for years as well - apparently Honda did something right with the 250R/400EX geometry.

I personally think you are mistaken in thinking this was not coming until the YFZ was announced & it has nothing to do with "brand loyalty" - of course you know there's no way to prove either way, other than the fact that it takes much longer than the time available to show a finished, production level quad like we've been shown. The frame on the 450 is enough different (for those of us familiar with a 250R and 400EX) that it's easy to tell that it's a completely new design - not just a 400EX chassis with new mounts.

Heck, if someone like myself knew early this year that Yamaha was about finished with their 450, you can bet that Honda knew a good long while before that. In fact, one quote I heard was "Yamaha plans to release their 450 just before Honda" - they both knew each other were working on 450s - boiled down to dealer meeting timing. Next season, what will it matter who got theirs to market first unless one of them rushed theirs to market - only time will tell on that subject as well.