YFZ wont start
Feb 21, 2005 | 01:17 AM
#11
Trailblazer
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
YFZ wont start
Oh yes, another myth or technique that is always mentioned but ironically the owners can never tell you why, (definitely not justa coincidence, it is due to a lack of understanding electrical theory). The suggestion of taking the key out. Simple if you know electrical theory you can prove or disprove this in 5 minutes. Just do the drain test with one battery cable disconnected and the test light across the broken connection. Key out the light should be off with a healthy bike. Put the key in, does the light turn on? Probably not. If not the key is not causing a drain, no guessing, no myths, just a proven fact using theory and testing. Now if the key does lightwhen the key is simply inserted then the switch is defective. Probably so worn internally that the contact and slider inside actually move enough out of alignment from simply putting the key in that it makes the contacts touch. That would be amazing but is a remote possibilty and also and include the possiblity of foreign conductive matter in the switch. Don't wonder about it, or go by these golden rules or by the "this happened to me therefore this is your problem also stuff" TEST it. You are the only one standing next to your bike physically able to inspect it for the possibilities. Not anyone online. Good luck and everyone else, this is meant as guide to help only stating facts and not to discredit anyone. Everyone here is great and gets my thumbs up, but I am only trying to assist with a little constructive guidance to help the truly needy from going in circles and getting back on the right path and the easiest path avoiding the theory of luck and using factual theory of electricity. Sorry for the long thread but the facts here really are valuable and can help thousands of people for a lifetime in many situations. Again my apologies for sounding frank, but the truth has to be frank.
Feb 21, 2005 | 01:31 AM
#12
Trailblazer
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
YFZ wont start
It is too bad some people would rather post possiblities and possible myths and not want to learn to help themselves and also take a chance of wasting other peoples time with possibilites instead of learning how to get to the problem and fixing it without guessing. You have it so much easier reading a few long paragraphs to learn so much rather than learn this stuff the hard way or paying big dollars to learn at a school or paying big dollars buying incorrect components relying on shear luck. I can't help but to relate to all of the girls and older women and men with just enough money to pay the bills and pay for meals for their kids, and they have spent hundreds of dollars because of uneducated bad advice from people trying to help without the knowledge behind their advice. That bugs me inside big time. I especially like to help families with young children with broken down furnaces in the cold winter months and no money. I usually get them up and running literally for free from understanding electrical theory. Sorry you find any kind of repair lessons too long to read. I think you are telling others on here how much attention to pay to your future advice. Consider yes, but by all means see what knowledge and actual theory you do posses behind any suggestions.
Feb 22, 2005 | 08:29 AM
#14
Weekend Warrior
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
YFZ wont start
I have an '04 also and am having the same problems. I just got it back from the 20 hr service and while it was there they charged the battery for me (because when I brought it in it was dead - I mean really dead - when I hit the ignition all it would do is tick). I was told the battery was holding the charge with no problems. I bring it home and fire it up - no problem - ride for a half hour or so and bring it in. I let it sit for a week or so and took it out again - same thing. Had to let it sit about ten days and when I tried to take it out yesterday it was dead.
I jump started it, rode it and it everything was fine. Even when I turned it off it fired right back up. I put it in the garage for about 2 hours, came back - battery was dead again!
If the '04 had battery problems, does anyone know specifically what they were? Would just buying a new battery solve this? I am more than willing to replace the thing. This is the only complaint I have with this quad.
I jump started it, rode it and it everything was fine. Even when I turned it off it fired right back up. I put it in the garage for about 2 hours, came back - battery was dead again!
If the '04 had battery problems, does anyone know specifically what they were? Would just buying a new battery solve this? I am more than willing to replace the thing. This is the only complaint I have with this quad.
Feb 22, 2005 | 05:02 PM
#15
Pro Rider
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,631
Likes: 0
YFZ wont start
Originally posted by: renegade888
Listen, instead of guessing and spending money on new stuff while hoping you are having the same problem as anyone else has had, do this FIRST.................... Test your bike and your battery. Test not guess. 1st thing to do is to check the bikes running voltage at the battery compared to the vattery voltage you get with the bike just sitting there. Should jump up at least by 1 volt when the bike is running compared to not running. If it does or does not then you can look into the headlight suggestion. Simple to do there. Check the voltage with the bike running and headlights on and headlights off. See what happens. Ther person suggesting the headlight trick should have their regulator checked. Regulators turn on and send a charge to the battery at a specific voltage. Some are set to shut the charge off to the battery at 14.2 volts, some at 15.2 volts depending on manufacturer and use of vehicle. UPS and mail trucks are usually set higher for the excessive stopping and starting. May well be set to 15 1/2 volt regulation. The headlight theory actually breaks the voltage regulation theory. Example, if a bike was not putting out enough voltage becuase of the reason (that this dealer told our kind friend online hear attempting to help you) tthe battery would still run down to a certain voltage which in turn would cause the regulator to start sending a charge to the battery. Turning the headlights on would only speed up this process by draining the battery faster. The result is the same though. It is only a numbers game utilizing battery voltage as the controlling factor or the controlling number. A regulator simply sends the stators charge to the battery when the battery drops to a preset(setting built into the regulator) voltage. Period. Forget these myths. This helper online is inly passing on what a dealer or mechanic that does not fully understand the theory of electricity and electronic components is telligng our friend here. So lets assume your test shows the bike does indeed jump up at least one volt when it is running over just sitting there not running. Then this tells you the charging system is working. At least to the point of work load you have just expsed it to with the headlights on and possibly a cooling fan on. Now if the charge is present but the battery continues to let you down. There are a few other good possibilities. TEST for these, don't guess. Take a terminal off of the battery. Connect your digital (hopfully you have one) voltmeter or multi meter and measure the voltage. Measure it again in about 15 minutes. Do this a few times. If the voltage is trickling down a little bit at a time over a few 15 minute periods you probably have a bad battery. Internally shorted cells from sulfication. Now lets say the battery doesn't drop, two possibilities exist. One is the battery is too coated with sulfer but is not shorted internally creating a low reserve in the battery even at a full charge. You would have to do a current load test on the battery. A garage can help you. It should be able to put out x number of amps for 15 seconds. that is the typical current draw test on a battery. Now lets do another easy test in the mean time that is a big possiblity. There could be a drain in your bikes circuitry. A short. This is easy to test for. With the keyswitch off, disconnect either battery terminal, preferably the negative to avoid accidental shorting from the positive to a bike ground by accident with your screw driver/socket etc. Take a test light (looks like a screw driver handle with a point awl on the end) and put the cable clamp from it onto the disconnected battery cable and the point of the tool jamb down into the battery terminal itself. The light should stay off. If the light comes on it is showing you the actual electricity that is draining out of your battery to the bikes ground somewhere thru a short. Leave the test ligth connected and shining light. You can use it to pinpoint the problem. Start wiggling wires and even disconnect harness connectors and within a minute or two you will make that light go out because you will at some point break the circuit to the short. If the bike has a fuse box with several fuses, unplug the fuses one at a time. Works great especially on cars. Once you unplug the fuse for the bad circuit the light will go out and you start working along that circuit, unplugging connectors and wiggling wires in case they are rubbing ground. There are only a few things that cause a low battery. Forget buying anything til you test. The headlight thing is a mis understood phenomenon. A stator puts out a certain amount of volts at a certain rpm, period. Nothing can change the properties of a stator. A regulator simply turns on and off at a preset voltage it is what it is from the factory, non adjustable. Different current draw levels (ie from headlights being on, cooling fan kicking on during a hot day, hand grip warmers) from the battery only increases or decreases the cycle between these on and off cycles. Period. There may be a defect in the regulator not switiching until the battery is too low and the rider is is lucky to shut the bike off just at the point the regulator sends the charge to the battery long enough after it did its switching action from the battery getting low. A bad battery could possibly benefit from this becuase it has sulfer build up and heat breaks this sulfer down temporarily. A busy voltage regulator can heat up a battery temporarily breaking up the sulfer coating over the lead cells exposing more acid to the lead creating a greater charge reserve. Ignore myths and stick to testing and actual theory, you will save a lot of money in years to come.
Listen, instead of guessing and spending money on new stuff while hoping you are having the same problem as anyone else has had, do this FIRST.................... Test your bike and your battery. Test not guess. 1st thing to do is to check the bikes running voltage at the battery compared to the vattery voltage you get with the bike just sitting there. Should jump up at least by 1 volt when the bike is running compared to not running. If it does or does not then you can look into the headlight suggestion. Simple to do there. Check the voltage with the bike running and headlights on and headlights off. See what happens. Ther person suggesting the headlight trick should have their regulator checked. Regulators turn on and send a charge to the battery at a specific voltage. Some are set to shut the charge off to the battery at 14.2 volts, some at 15.2 volts depending on manufacturer and use of vehicle. UPS and mail trucks are usually set higher for the excessive stopping and starting. May well be set to 15 1/2 volt regulation. The headlight theory actually breaks the voltage regulation theory. Example, if a bike was not putting out enough voltage becuase of the reason (that this dealer told our kind friend online hear attempting to help you) tthe battery would still run down to a certain voltage which in turn would cause the regulator to start sending a charge to the battery. Turning the headlights on would only speed up this process by draining the battery faster. The result is the same though. It is only a numbers game utilizing battery voltage as the controlling factor or the controlling number. A regulator simply sends the stators charge to the battery when the battery drops to a preset(setting built into the regulator) voltage. Period. Forget these myths. This helper online is inly passing on what a dealer or mechanic that does not fully understand the theory of electricity and electronic components is telligng our friend here. So lets assume your test shows the bike does indeed jump up at least one volt when it is running over just sitting there not running. Then this tells you the charging system is working. At least to the point of work load you have just expsed it to with the headlights on and possibly a cooling fan on. Now if the charge is present but the battery continues to let you down. There are a few other good possibilities. TEST for these, don't guess. Take a terminal off of the battery. Connect your digital (hopfully you have one) voltmeter or multi meter and measure the voltage. Measure it again in about 15 minutes. Do this a few times. If the voltage is trickling down a little bit at a time over a few 15 minute periods you probably have a bad battery. Internally shorted cells from sulfication. Now lets say the battery doesn't drop, two possibilities exist. One is the battery is too coated with sulfer but is not shorted internally creating a low reserve in the battery even at a full charge. You would have to do a current load test on the battery. A garage can help you. It should be able to put out x number of amps for 15 seconds. that is the typical current draw test on a battery. Now lets do another easy test in the mean time that is a big possiblity. There could be a drain in your bikes circuitry. A short. This is easy to test for. With the keyswitch off, disconnect either battery terminal, preferably the negative to avoid accidental shorting from the positive to a bike ground by accident with your screw driver/socket etc. Take a test light (looks like a screw driver handle with a point awl on the end) and put the cable clamp from it onto the disconnected battery cable and the point of the tool jamb down into the battery terminal itself. The light should stay off. If the light comes on it is showing you the actual electricity that is draining out of your battery to the bikes ground somewhere thru a short. Leave the test ligth connected and shining light. You can use it to pinpoint the problem. Start wiggling wires and even disconnect harness connectors and within a minute or two you will make that light go out because you will at some point break the circuit to the short. If the bike has a fuse box with several fuses, unplug the fuses one at a time. Works great especially on cars. Once you unplug the fuse for the bad circuit the light will go out and you start working along that circuit, unplugging connectors and wiggling wires in case they are rubbing ground. There are only a few things that cause a low battery. Forget buying anything til you test. The headlight thing is a mis understood phenomenon. A stator puts out a certain amount of volts at a certain rpm, period. Nothing can change the properties of a stator. A regulator simply turns on and off at a preset voltage it is what it is from the factory, non adjustable. Different current draw levels (ie from headlights being on, cooling fan kicking on during a hot day, hand grip warmers) from the battery only increases or decreases the cycle between these on and off cycles. Period. There may be a defect in the regulator not switiching until the battery is too low and the rider is is lucky to shut the bike off just at the point the regulator sends the charge to the battery long enough after it did its switching action from the battery getting low. A bad battery could possibly benefit from this becuase it has sulfer build up and heat breaks this sulfer down temporarily. A busy voltage regulator can heat up a battery temporarily breaking up the sulfer coating over the lead cells exposing more acid to the lead creating a greater charge reserve. Ignore myths and stick to testing and actual theory, you will save a lot of money in years to come.
Lose my place every 4-5 sentences.
I think it is good info though. Just hard to read and follow.
Feb 22, 2005 | 05:09 PM
#16
Pro Rider
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,631
Likes: 0
YFZ wont start
Originally posted by: renegade888
Listen, instead of guessing and spending money on new stuff while hoping you are having the same problem as anyone else has had, do this FIRST.................... Test your bike and your battery.
Test not guess.
1st thing to do is to check the bikes running voltage at the battery compared to the vattery voltage you get with the bike just sitting there. Should jump up at least by 1 volt when the bike is running compared to not running. If it does or does not then you can look into the headlight suggestion. Simple to do there.
Check the voltage with the bike running and headlights on and headlights off. See what happens. Ther person suggesting the headlight trick should have their regulator checked. Regulators turn on and send a charge to the battery at a specific voltage. Some are set to shut the charge off to the battery at 14.2 volts, some at 15.2 volts depending on manufacturer and use of vehicle.
UPS and mail trucks are usually set higher for the excessive stopping and starting. May well be set to 15 1/2 volt regulation. The headlight theory actually breaks the voltage regulation theory. Example, if a bike was not putting out enough voltage becuase of the reason (that this dealer told our kind friend online hear attempting to help you) tthe battery would still run down to a certain voltage which in turn would cause the regulator to start sending a charge to the battery.
Turning the headlights on would only speed up this process by draining the battery faster. The result is the same though. It is only a numbers game utilizing battery voltage as the controlling factor or the controlling number. A regulator simply sends the stators charge to the battery when the battery drops to a preset(setting built into the regulator) voltage. Period. Forget these myths.
This helper online is inly passing on what a dealer or mechanic that does not fully understand the theory of electricity and electronic components is telligng our friend here. So lets assume your test shows the bike does indeed jump up at least one volt when it is running over just sitting there not running. Then this tells you the charging system is working. At least to the point of work load you have just expsed it to with the headlights on and possibly a cooling fan on.
Now if the charge is present but the battery continues to let you down. There are a few other good possibilities.
TEST for these, don't guess. Take a terminal off of the battery. Connect your digital (hopfully you have one) voltmeter or multi meter and measure the voltage. Measure it again in about 15 minutes. Do this a few times. If the voltage is trickling down a little bit at a time over a few 15 minute periods you probably have a bad battery.
Internally shorted cells from sulfication. Now lets say the battery doesn't drop, two possibilities exist. One is the battery is too coated with sulfer but is not shorted internally creating a low reserve in the battery even at a full charge. You would have to do a current load test on the battery. A garage can help you.
It should be able to put out x number of amps for 15 seconds. that is the typical current draw test on a battery. Now lets do another easy test in the mean time that is a big possiblity. There could be a drain in your bikes circuitry. A short. This is easy to test for. With the keyswitch off, disconnect either battery terminal, preferably the negative to avoid accidental shorting from the positive to a bike ground by accident with your screw driver/socket etc.
Take a test light (looks like a screw driver handle with a point awl on the end) and put the cable clamp from it onto the disconnected battery cable and the point of the tool jamb down into the battery terminal itself. The light should stay off. If the light comes on it is showing you the actual electricity that is draining out of your battery to the bikes ground somewhere thru a short. Leave the test ligth connected and shining light. You can use it to pinpoint the problem.
Start wiggling wires and even disconnect harness connectors and within a minute or two you will make that light go out because you will at some point break the circuit to the short.
If the bike has a fuse box with several fuses, unplug the fuses one at a time. Works great especially on cars. Once you unplug the fuse for the bad circuit the light will go out and you start working along that circuit, unplugging connectors and wiggling wires in case they are rubbing ground. There are only a few things that cause a low battery.
Forget buying anything til you test. The headlight thing is a mis understood phenomenon. A stator puts out a certain amount of volts at a certain rpm, period. Nothing can change the properties of a stator.
A regulator simply turns on and off at a preset voltage it is what it is from the factory, non adjustable. Different current draw levels (ie from headlights being on, cooling fan kicking on during a hot day, hand grip warmers) from the battery only increases or decreases the cycle between these on and off cycles. Period. There may be a defect in the regulator not switiching until the battery is too low and the rider is is lucky to shut the bike off just at the point the regulator sends the charge to the battery long enough after it did its switching action from the battery getting low.
A bad battery could possibly benefit from this becuase it has sulfer build up and heat breaks this sulfer down temporarily. A busy voltage regulator can heat up a battery temporarily breaking up the sulfer coating over the lead cells exposing more acid to the lead creating a greater charge reserve. Ignore myths and stick to testing and actual theory, you will save a lot of money in years to come.
Listen, instead of guessing and spending money on new stuff while hoping you are having the same problem as anyone else has had, do this FIRST.................... Test your bike and your battery.
Test not guess.
1st thing to do is to check the bikes running voltage at the battery compared to the vattery voltage you get with the bike just sitting there. Should jump up at least by 1 volt when the bike is running compared to not running. If it does or does not then you can look into the headlight suggestion. Simple to do there.
Check the voltage with the bike running and headlights on and headlights off. See what happens. Ther person suggesting the headlight trick should have their regulator checked. Regulators turn on and send a charge to the battery at a specific voltage. Some are set to shut the charge off to the battery at 14.2 volts, some at 15.2 volts depending on manufacturer and use of vehicle.
UPS and mail trucks are usually set higher for the excessive stopping and starting. May well be set to 15 1/2 volt regulation. The headlight theory actually breaks the voltage regulation theory. Example, if a bike was not putting out enough voltage becuase of the reason (that this dealer told our kind friend online hear attempting to help you) tthe battery would still run down to a certain voltage which in turn would cause the regulator to start sending a charge to the battery.
Turning the headlights on would only speed up this process by draining the battery faster. The result is the same though. It is only a numbers game utilizing battery voltage as the controlling factor or the controlling number. A regulator simply sends the stators charge to the battery when the battery drops to a preset(setting built into the regulator) voltage. Period. Forget these myths.
This helper online is inly passing on what a dealer or mechanic that does not fully understand the theory of electricity and electronic components is telligng our friend here. So lets assume your test shows the bike does indeed jump up at least one volt when it is running over just sitting there not running. Then this tells you the charging system is working. At least to the point of work load you have just expsed it to with the headlights on and possibly a cooling fan on.
Now if the charge is present but the battery continues to let you down. There are a few other good possibilities.
TEST for these, don't guess. Take a terminal off of the battery. Connect your digital (hopfully you have one) voltmeter or multi meter and measure the voltage. Measure it again in about 15 minutes. Do this a few times. If the voltage is trickling down a little bit at a time over a few 15 minute periods you probably have a bad battery.
Internally shorted cells from sulfication. Now lets say the battery doesn't drop, two possibilities exist. One is the battery is too coated with sulfer but is not shorted internally creating a low reserve in the battery even at a full charge. You would have to do a current load test on the battery. A garage can help you.
It should be able to put out x number of amps for 15 seconds. that is the typical current draw test on a battery. Now lets do another easy test in the mean time that is a big possiblity. There could be a drain in your bikes circuitry. A short. This is easy to test for. With the keyswitch off, disconnect either battery terminal, preferably the negative to avoid accidental shorting from the positive to a bike ground by accident with your screw driver/socket etc.
Take a test light (looks like a screw driver handle with a point awl on the end) and put the cable clamp from it onto the disconnected battery cable and the point of the tool jamb down into the battery terminal itself. The light should stay off. If the light comes on it is showing you the actual electricity that is draining out of your battery to the bikes ground somewhere thru a short. Leave the test ligth connected and shining light. You can use it to pinpoint the problem.
Start wiggling wires and even disconnect harness connectors and within a minute or two you will make that light go out because you will at some point break the circuit to the short.
If the bike has a fuse box with several fuses, unplug the fuses one at a time. Works great especially on cars. Once you unplug the fuse for the bad circuit the light will go out and you start working along that circuit, unplugging connectors and wiggling wires in case they are rubbing ground. There are only a few things that cause a low battery.
Forget buying anything til you test. The headlight thing is a mis understood phenomenon. A stator puts out a certain amount of volts at a certain rpm, period. Nothing can change the properties of a stator.
A regulator simply turns on and off at a preset voltage it is what it is from the factory, non adjustable. Different current draw levels (ie from headlights being on, cooling fan kicking on during a hot day, hand grip warmers) from the battery only increases or decreases the cycle between these on and off cycles. Period. There may be a defect in the regulator not switiching until the battery is too low and the rider is is lucky to shut the bike off just at the point the regulator sends the charge to the battery long enough after it did its switching action from the battery getting low.
A bad battery could possibly benefit from this becuase it has sulfer build up and heat breaks this sulfer down temporarily. A busy voltage regulator can heat up a battery temporarily breaking up the sulfer coating over the lead cells exposing more acid to the lead creating a greater charge reserve. Ignore myths and stick to testing and actual theory, you will save a lot of money in years to come.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)