Raptor vr. DS650 vr. 01 400EX
#1
10-01-2000, 10:33 PM
Join Date: Oct 2000
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I went out to the place where I ride this weekend with my brand new Raptor
that I picked up Saturday morning. I was riding with a couple of my buddies
and one has a 400EX we decided to race across a damn that is paved and about
250yard long. The 400EX is no match for the Raptor. Totally destroyed it.
We rode a while after that and fpund a guy driving around on a new Ds650, we
talked and decided to race across the damn. The guy was about 30 years old
5'8-10 and about 180lbs. He says that he has been riding for many years. I
am 18, 6'1 and 185lbs. We lined up at that beginning of the bottom of the
hill.( The damn is about 250yards long and paved) We took off as the other
guys said go.I jumped him off the line then about a third of way down he
pulled up besisd me then as I shifted into fifth gear i pulled ahead and won
by about 1 bike length. We went back and was talking about the bikes and
decided we needed to do best out of three, so we switched sides and took off
again, this time I jumped him off line and never looked back, about two bike
lengths at the end. We decided to go to a gravel road and tried again, it was about 400yard with a few small curves. We raced again and my tires spun for a second then hooked up and pulled away about 300 yards into the race and one by about a bike length or two. Everyone suggested for us to switch bikes and do it
again but he said no.
I have to say that the DS is a bad bike, but I hasve to say that the
Raptor is a Tad faster has reverse and $1000 cheaper.
I would have to say that their is a new dog on the block, so beware.
that I picked up Saturday morning. I was riding with a couple of my buddies
and one has a 400EX we decided to race across a damn that is paved and about
250yard long. The 400EX is no match for the Raptor. Totally destroyed it.
We rode a while after that and fpund a guy driving around on a new Ds650, we
talked and decided to race across the damn. The guy was about 30 years old
5'8-10 and about 180lbs. He says that he has been riding for many years. I
am 18, 6'1 and 185lbs. We lined up at that beginning of the bottom of the
hill.( The damn is about 250yards long and paved) We took off as the other
guys said go.I jumped him off the line then about a third of way down he
pulled up besisd me then as I shifted into fifth gear i pulled ahead and won
by about 1 bike length. We went back and was talking about the bikes and
decided we needed to do best out of three, so we switched sides and took off
again, this time I jumped him off line and never looked back, about two bike
lengths at the end. We decided to go to a gravel road and tried again, it was about 400yard with a few small curves. We raced again and my tires spun for a second then hooked up and pulled away about 300 yards into the race and one by about a bike length or two. Everyone suggested for us to switch bikes and do it
again but he said no.
I have to say that the DS is a bad bike, but I hasve to say that the
Raptor is a Tad faster has reverse and $1000 cheaper.
I would have to say that their is a new dog on the block, so beware.
#2
10-02-2000, 12:16 AM
This has NOT been my experience with the Raptor, although my DS is not 100% stock. I have beaten Raptors in a drag in sand and on grass. A stock Raptor seems quite torquey and will give a stock DS a run for it's money. But seeing how the Raptor is only 400 lbs, it ought to smoke a stock DS in any situation as well as piped DS's, but that doesn't happen. Yamaha must have de-tuned the Raptor with the exhaust or carb or intake or even sacrificed some peak HP for a 2-stroke hit. I do think that with a Raptor running good carb/intake/exhaust and a DS with the same, the Raptor ought to win due to the weight difference. If it doesn't the motor isn't up to par with the DS.
#3
10-02-2000, 01:04 AM
This weekend I was at sand mountain in Utah. The hill is very steep and I'd guess about half a mile long. People at the top look like specks.
I have a y2k 400ex with a K&N filter, dyno jet and a WB e-series pipe with 18 disks. I weigh 220. There was a black and white Raptor there and raceing anyone who wanted to have a go. The rider was 200 pounds or less(less) Also there was a stock DS650 except for a diferent front sprocket. He looked to be around 200 lbs. First I
asked him to race me so I could see myself how I would do. Id heard they didnt do well on the hill.
Well he killed me! 20 bike lengths at the top. He just kept puling away. Then I saw a 400ex race the raptor and win. I asked what he had and he said only a K&N and a FMF pipe(I guess well trust him) Weight 180 he said. He and I and the raptor raced to thr top. On the flat the Raptor took the lead. Aprox 100 yards up the hill the other ex started to catch the raptor. By half way point he had passes him and I started to gain ground. At 3/4 way the raptor always had problems and people would gain on him. I cought up to 2 bike lenghts at the top and the other ex beat him by at least 2 from what I could tell . He beat him twice. From what I saw I was the only one he beat. He raced a lot of banshees and lost. Maybe its a gearing problem but I was dissapointed in its hill climbing ability especially after the ds just killed me. I find it funny all the smack raptor lovers talked to ds owners and from what I saw fell way short! MY 2 bits.
I have a y2k 400ex with a K&N filter, dyno jet and a WB e-series pipe with 18 disks. I weigh 220. There was a black and white Raptor there and raceing anyone who wanted to have a go. The rider was 200 pounds or less(less) Also there was a stock DS650 except for a diferent front sprocket. He looked to be around 200 lbs. First I
asked him to race me so I could see myself how I would do. Id heard they didnt do well on the hill.
Well he killed me! 20 bike lengths at the top. He just kept puling away. Then I saw a 400ex race the raptor and win. I asked what he had and he said only a K&N and a FMF pipe(I guess well trust him) Weight 180 he said. He and I and the raptor raced to thr top. On the flat the Raptor took the lead. Aprox 100 yards up the hill the other ex started to catch the raptor. By half way point he had passes him and I started to gain ground. At 3/4 way the raptor always had problems and people would gain on him. I cought up to 2 bike lenghts at the top and the other ex beat him by at least 2 from what I could tell . He beat him twice. From what I saw I was the only one he beat. He raced a lot of banshees and lost. Maybe its a gearing problem but I was dissapointed in its hill climbing ability especially after the ds just killed me. I find it funny all the smack raptor lovers talked to ds owners and from what I saw fell way short! MY 2 bits.
#4
10-02-2000, 03:00 AM
#5
10-02-2000, 11:22 AM
Topdawg,
I was also at Little Sahara (Sand Mountain) this weekend and was a witness to the events you described above. First of all as we all know by now the Raptor is poorly geared and as such one would expect it to do poorly on a hill climb as long as Sand Mountain. I actually talked to the rider on the Raptor to figure out what was going on with it. The rider aboard the Raptor was 220lbs and the Raptor was totally bone stock as it was its first time out. I then asked him why he would start to lose ground about 2/3 of the way up as he would beat just about anything except modified banshee’s up to that point. He noted that 2nd gear was way to tall for hill climbing and that was only able to barely hit 3rd before the long trek up the mountain which would cause him to have to downshift back into 2nd before too long. He would then slowly lose speed due to the poor gearing in 2nd gear until 2/3 of the way where he had to downshift to 1st gear at which point he was redline in 1st all the way up.
So taking the poor gearing into account I walked away fairly impressed as he was beating just about anything 2/3 of the way up. With a little re-gearing I almost sure he would have been able to maintain, if not increase his lead all the way up. So get in all of the races you can up Sand Mountain with your modified 400EX while you can, because once the Raptor is re-geared/re-jetted for Utah’s high altitude your going to be eating nothing but sand, if you’ll even be able to stay that close.
Tripps
’98 Banshee
I was also at Little Sahara (Sand Mountain) this weekend and was a witness to the events you described above. First of all as we all know by now the Raptor is poorly geared and as such one would expect it to do poorly on a hill climb as long as Sand Mountain. I actually talked to the rider on the Raptor to figure out what was going on with it. The rider aboard the Raptor was 220lbs and the Raptor was totally bone stock as it was its first time out. I then asked him why he would start to lose ground about 2/3 of the way up as he would beat just about anything except modified banshee’s up to that point. He noted that 2nd gear was way to tall for hill climbing and that was only able to barely hit 3rd before the long trek up the mountain which would cause him to have to downshift back into 2nd before too long. He would then slowly lose speed due to the poor gearing in 2nd gear until 2/3 of the way where he had to downshift to 1st gear at which point he was redline in 1st all the way up.
So taking the poor gearing into account I walked away fairly impressed as he was beating just about anything 2/3 of the way up. With a little re-gearing I almost sure he would have been able to maintain, if not increase his lead all the way up. So get in all of the races you can up Sand Mountain with your modified 400EX while you can, because once the Raptor is re-geared/re-jetted for Utah’s high altitude your going to be eating nothing but sand, if you’ll even be able to stay that close.
Tripps
’98 Banshee
#7
10-02-2000, 12:40 PM
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#9
10-02-2000, 02:17 PM
The right side is the easiest by far. Hey topdawg...what gear on your 400 to make it up the right side?? I make it in 3rd most of the way, then have to drop it into 2nd (stock gearing).
Was the Raptor you guys saw a blue one?? I tried to race a guy w/ a blue one that weekend and he wouldn't.....
Was the Raptor you guys saw a blue one?? I tried to race a guy w/ a blue one that weekend and he wouldn't.....
#10
10-02-2000, 09:54 PM
I am in third through the woops and maybee a third of the way up or less. Then I have to go to second and it pulls good all the way up. I'd like to add that the 400 ex does good against the 660, being 260 cc less. Yamaha guys complained Honda missed the mark with the ex, only 28 hp. If thats true then Yamaha is in the same boat. Also did you guys see the trx 250R with the 330 kit. He smoked all who dared race him while I was there. Banshee' included.