Twin Piston Face Off!
#22
09-30-2005 | 10:58 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 745
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Twin Piston Face Off!
Originally posted by: Doctorturbo
Look, here is the deal. As a rule of thumb, weight for weight, mod for mod, it takes almost twice as many cubes from a 4 stroke to even come close to the power of a two stroke. A two stroke makes power on every stroke. A four stroke makes power on every other stroke. It's a two for one deal, just like the cubes.
It's WAY easy to make tons of power with a two stroke. Port it, pipe it, make sure it gets lots of air and your on your way to making huge amounts of power. Horsepower is just a formula to figure out power (torque). The faster you spin a shaft the quicker it gets the job done. The quicker it gets the job done the more horsepower the engine will make.
You can not spin a big twin anywhere close to a 350 two stroke.
A good analogy would be a Harley against a Jap super bike. The only thing the Harley has going for it is torque from the big cubes it has. The Jap bike will kill the Harley because of many reasons, but one of the main reasons is you can not twist a Harley to the moon like a ricer.
Another reason the Shee is faster is because of the belt drive system. From a standing start the belt system is very efficient. As time goes on during the race the belt on the V will start robbing LOTS of power from that big bore. About half way through the race a gear to gear is more efficient and that will show up. The shaft is less efficient than the Shee's chain drive also.
Another problem is piston acceleration. Even if a four stroke could wind as tight as a two stroke you will not be able to get the RPM up as fast as a two stroke. Now, couple this with the weight savings of a two stroke and it will kill a four stroke.
What does the two stroke Shee have going for it?
#1. Over all weight.
#2. Piston acceleration.
#3. Total RPM.
#4. Power on every stroke.
#5. Efficient drive system.
The only thing the V has going for it is cubes. That's it, cubes.
A V is a great quad. I know, I own one. I would not trade it for anything, but an unlimited class drag race quad it is not!!!
If you are in a limited class they could be great depending on the rules. But unlimited; you will loose every time to a two stroke.
I always wanted to make a 500CID big block two stroke and put it in a dragster!!! Now wouldn't that be something??!!!
Why wouldn't the V force win? It's a twin cylinder just like the banshee, an auto transmission for a smoother powerband, and it has 350 more cc's. the only thing the banshee practically has over it is its weight, 2 stroke, and the aftermarket parts. right?
It's WAY easy to make tons of power with a two stroke. Port it, pipe it, make sure it gets lots of air and your on your way to making huge amounts of power. Horsepower is just a formula to figure out power (torque). The faster you spin a shaft the quicker it gets the job done. The quicker it gets the job done the more horsepower the engine will make.
You can not spin a big twin anywhere close to a 350 two stroke.
A good analogy would be a Harley against a Jap super bike. The only thing the Harley has going for it is torque from the big cubes it has. The Jap bike will kill the Harley because of many reasons, but one of the main reasons is you can not twist a Harley to the moon like a ricer.
Another reason the Shee is faster is because of the belt drive system. From a standing start the belt system is very efficient. As time goes on during the race the belt on the V will start robbing LOTS of power from that big bore. About half way through the race a gear to gear is more efficient and that will show up. The shaft is less efficient than the Shee's chain drive also.
Another problem is piston acceleration. Even if a four stroke could wind as tight as a two stroke you will not be able to get the RPM up as fast as a two stroke. Now, couple this with the weight savings of a two stroke and it will kill a four stroke.
What does the two stroke Shee have going for it?
#1. Over all weight.
#2. Piston acceleration.
#3. Total RPM.
#4. Power on every stroke.
#5. Efficient drive system.
The only thing the V has going for it is cubes. That's it, cubes.
A V is a great quad. I know, I own one. I would not trade it for anything, but an unlimited class drag race quad it is not!!!
If you are in a limited class they could be great depending on the rules. But unlimited; you will loose every time to a two stroke.
I always wanted to make a 500CID big block two stroke and put it in a dragster!!! Now wouldn't that be something??!!!
i agree 100% expecially w/ the harely jap super bike part but id bet money if u had the two chained together the harely(or in this case v-force) would drag the other around lik a kid w/ a little red wagon
#24
09-30-2005 | 11:09 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
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Twin Piston Face Off!
Need some advice....
What type of trailer would be strong enough, light, cheap, and big enough to be able to carry 2 mini predator 90cc's, yfz450, 110 dirtbike suzuki, and at another time (not while carrying the atv's and the dirtbike) a 753 bobcat? also, can a 1998 dodge ram 1500 pull it with ease? I live in jacksonville, Florida and i am bout ready to go to Shelbyville, Tennessee to my father's house and roll around his 200 acres of land.
Thanks,
Keelam
What type of trailer would be strong enough, light, cheap, and big enough to be able to carry 2 mini predator 90cc's, yfz450, 110 dirtbike suzuki, and at another time (not while carrying the atv's and the dirtbike) a 753 bobcat? also, can a 1998 dodge ram 1500 pull it with ease? I live in jacksonville, Florida and i am bout ready to go to Shelbyville, Tennessee to my father's house and roll around his 200 acres of land.
Thanks,
Keelam
#25
10-01-2005 | 04:27 AM
Pro Rider
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,505
Likes: 0
Twin Piston Face Off!
Sure... you can take a V-Force and put a big bore kit, cams, ect... blah blah.
You can also buy a big Dodge Ram with a Cummins (or Ford with a PowerStroke, or a GM with a Duramax),replace the turbo with a huge unit, make it boost huge, add propane injection, 1200 ft lbs of torque, ect and have a FAST, FAST truck. (12's, 13's, or even faster)
But, if your objective is to make a fast rig, why buy the wrong platform? Why buy a Dodge Ram Cummins (Vforce) to make it "try" to compete with a modified Twin Turbo Supra? (Banshee) (yea I did just reply to keelams thread about supras![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img])
Bottom line, sure the VForce has a big V-twin engine.... and the Dodge Ram has a big inline 6 diesel with a turbo. Neither of them are designed to be drag raced... no matter how bad the owner wants them to be.
Oh, and regarding this comment... but id bet money if u had the two chained together the harely(or in this case v-force) would drag the other around lik a kid w/ a little red wagon This must be because the Harley is so overweight, or is it because its power output is comparable to that of a kids little red wagon.
You pay 20 grand, and you get an old pushrod V-Twin, thats air cooled. What a joke.
Theres a real V-twin, 90 degrees, 1000cc's with gear driven cams and side mounted radiators, in my picture page. (RVT.. racing V-Twin)
edit> The harley comment is JMO of course. I hope I didnt offend anyone.
You can also buy a big Dodge Ram with a Cummins (or Ford with a PowerStroke, or a GM with a Duramax),replace the turbo with a huge unit, make it boost huge, add propane injection, 1200 ft lbs of torque, ect and have a FAST, FAST truck. (12's, 13's, or even faster)
But, if your objective is to make a fast rig, why buy the wrong platform? Why buy a Dodge Ram Cummins (Vforce) to make it "try" to compete with a modified Twin Turbo Supra? (Banshee) (yea I did just reply to keelams thread about supras![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img])
Bottom line, sure the VForce has a big V-twin engine.... and the Dodge Ram has a big inline 6 diesel with a turbo. Neither of them are designed to be drag raced... no matter how bad the owner wants them to be.
Oh, and regarding this comment... but id bet money if u had the two chained together the harely(or in this case v-force) would drag the other around lik a kid w/ a little red wagon This must be because the Harley is so overweight, or is it because its power output is comparable to that of a kids little red wagon.
You pay 20 grand, and you get an old pushrod V-Twin, thats air cooled. What a joke.
Theres a real V-twin, 90 degrees, 1000cc's with gear driven cams and side mounted radiators, in my picture page. (RVT.. racing V-Twin)
edit> The harley comment is JMO of course. I hope I didnt offend anyone.
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