Shootout: YFZ450 TRX450R
#11
01-06-2006, 11:09 AM
Shootout: YFZ450 TRX450R
Originally posted by: DesertViper
And in regards to the YFZ having an all new engine next year, ... it wouldn't surprise me one bit if that were indeed the case. The YZ450F got an all new engine this year, so the quad will likely get that engine next year.
Don't worry folks, the YFZ won the shootout against Honda this year because of a better chassis, and next year it will be back on top in the engine dept. as well.
DV
And in regards to the YFZ having an all new engine next year, ... it wouldn't surprise me one bit if that were indeed the case. The YZ450F got an all new engine this year, so the quad will likely get that engine next year.
Don't worry folks, the YFZ won the shootout against Honda this year because of a better chassis, and next year it will be back on top in the engine dept. as well.
DV
That's the same thing I was thinking about the motor from the 06' YZF450. I wouldn't doubt it if the YFZ came with a new aluminum frame in the near future with EFI. They all will adventually.
Since the 450 quads are starting to get updates yearly like the dirtbikes do, I wouldn't count the Honda out yet for next year, they might make significant changes as well. It will be a coin toss for the next few years.
#13
01-06-2006, 04:11 PM
Shootout: YFZ450 TRX450R
Originally posted by: DesertViper
I thought it was odd that the Honda felt like it had more power, and got significantly higher numbers on the dyno, yet the two ATVs were dead even in drag racing. The two ATVs even had what looked like identical gear ratios in all five gears, so gearing wasn't hurting the Honda's engine.
The YFZ also had considerably faster lap times than the Honda. Yet in another shootout this year, the 250cc four stroke motocross bike shootout, the KTM 250SX made the most horsepower, and produced the fastest lap times primarily due to that extra power, even though it only finished fourth out of five bikes in the shootout. So Honda really doesn't appear to be able to translate horsepower into better lap times, and the handling/suspension must be way off for that to be the case.
And in regards to the YFZ having an all new engine next year, ... it wouldn't surprise me one bit if that were indeed the case. The YZ450F got an all new engine this year, so the quad will likely get that engine next year. Don't worry folks, the YFZ won the shootout against Honda this year because of a better chassis, and next year it will be back on top in the engine dept. as well.
DV
I thought it was odd that the Honda felt like it had more power, and got significantly higher numbers on the dyno, yet the two ATVs were dead even in drag racing. The two ATVs even had what looked like identical gear ratios in all five gears, so gearing wasn't hurting the Honda's engine.
The YFZ also had considerably faster lap times than the Honda. Yet in another shootout this year, the 250cc four stroke motocross bike shootout, the KTM 250SX made the most horsepower, and produced the fastest lap times primarily due to that extra power, even though it only finished fourth out of five bikes in the shootout. So Honda really doesn't appear to be able to translate horsepower into better lap times, and the handling/suspension must be way off for that to be the case.
And in regards to the YFZ having an all new engine next year, ... it wouldn't surprise me one bit if that were indeed the case. The YZ450F got an all new engine this year, so the quad will likely get that engine next year. Don't worry folks, the YFZ won the shootout against Honda this year because of a better chassis, and next year it will be back on top in the engine dept. as well.
DV
#14
01-06-2006, 05:40 PM
#15
01-06-2006, 05:45 PM
Shootout: YFZ450 TRX450R
You know, all in all, I thought the review was pretty good. BUT, dirtwheels really needs to learn how to EDIT there articles. In the specs of the two, its says they both have 12 to 1 compression. That is not true, as the yfz has 11.4.1 this year. Also, the fuel tank quantities are off, as the yfz only carries 2.6 gallons. The weight of the two is what really threw me. A yfz weights in at 350 dry with electric start. (about 335 dry w/o). The honda with electric start weights in at 363 LBS. That 13 more pounds then the yfz!!!! With the kickstart its still heavier than the yfz at 357 lbs, 7 more pounds then the yfz with electric start, and 22 lbs more with kick start!!!!! Thats what cracked me up about this article, as it was showing the two's weight almost identical wet. WELL, how can that be when the honda holds more fluid and starts out 13 lbs heavier????????
There was a comment made earlier as to why the two are still neck and neck, even though the honda is making two extra horse on top, and the reason I think has a lot to do with "power to weight ratio" The yfz's is much better!
Also I too think it is to do with the fact that the honda is making most all of its power down low, and the yfzs is spread across the mid and high.
There is almost NO DOUBT in my mind, that if you where to put pipes, intake, and jetting on both, the yfz would be making more power then the trx once again. IN case you didnt see, HONDA put a half way decent stock exaust on the trx this year. Much less restriction. I read about it in "quad" mag, when they did the review of the trx. That is what is holding up the yamaha. Yamaha puts on "one clunker" of an exhaust, which both weights a TON and barely lets any exhaust out, especially with the cork still in it. If you where to take the little cork out of the yamaha, and dyno the two, you would have pretty equal numbers.
I am really happy that honda has stepped it up in the motor department, now they just have to figure out the rest of the quad.....except the brakes!
There was a comment made earlier as to why the two are still neck and neck, even though the honda is making two extra horse on top, and the reason I think has a lot to do with "power to weight ratio" The yfz's is much better!
Also I too think it is to do with the fact that the honda is making most all of its power down low, and the yfzs is spread across the mid and high.
There is almost NO DOUBT in my mind, that if you where to put pipes, intake, and jetting on both, the yfz would be making more power then the trx once again. IN case you didnt see, HONDA put a half way decent stock exaust on the trx this year. Much less restriction. I read about it in "quad" mag, when they did the review of the trx. That is what is holding up the yamaha. Yamaha puts on "one clunker" of an exhaust, which both weights a TON and barely lets any exhaust out, especially with the cork still in it. If you where to take the little cork out of the yamaha, and dyno the two, you would have pretty equal numbers.
I am really happy that honda has stepped it up in the motor department, now they just have to figure out the rest of the quad.....except the brakes!
#17
01-06-2006, 06:05 PM
Shootout: YFZ450 TRX450R
I guess my point was, it wasnt as bad as some things I have read from them. I pick up that magazine anymore and end up reading everything with a grain of salt. Maybe its because I have such low expectations from that mag, that I thought this article was ok. still far from good/great. they have a lot of "mis-information" in there articles and especially specs!
#18
01-06-2006, 06:24 PM
Shootout: YFZ450 TRX450R
Originally posted by: 135boom
You know, all in all, I thought the review was pretty good. BUT, dirtwheels really needs to learn how to EDIT there articles. In the specs of the two, its says they both have 12 to 1 compression. That is not true, as the yfz has 11.4.1 this year. Also, the fuel tank quantities are off, as the yfz only carries 2.6 gallons. The weight of the two is what really threw me. A yfz weights in at 350 dry with electric start. (about 335 dry w/o). The honda with electric start weights in at 363 LBS. That 13 more pounds then the yfz!!!! With the kickstart its still heavier than the yfz at 357 lbs, 7 more pounds then the yfz with electric start, and 22 lbs more with kick start!!!!! Thats what cracked me up about this article, as it was showing the two's weight almost identical wet. WELL, how can that be when the honda holds more fluid and starts out 13 lbs heavier????????
There was a comment made earlier as to why the two are still neck and neck, even though the honda is making two extra horse on top, and the reason I think has a lot to do with "power to weight ratio" The yfz's is much better!
Also I too think it is to do with the fact that the honda is making most all of its power down low, and the yfzs is spread across the mid and high.
There is almost NO DOUBT in my mind, that if you where to put pipes, intake, and jetting on both, the yfz would be making more power then the trx once again. IN case you didnt see, HONDA put a half way decent stock exaust on the trx this year. Much less restriction. I read about it in "quad" mag, when they did the review of the trx. That is what is holding up the yamaha. Yamaha puts on "one clunker" of an exhaust, which both weights a TON and barely lets any exhaust out, especially with the cork still in it. If you where to take the little cork out of the yamaha, and dyno the two, you would have pretty equal numbers.
I am really happy that honda has stepped it up in the motor department, now they just have to figure out the rest of the quad.....except the brakes!
You know, all in all, I thought the review was pretty good. BUT, dirtwheels really needs to learn how to EDIT there articles. In the specs of the two, its says they both have 12 to 1 compression. That is not true, as the yfz has 11.4.1 this year. Also, the fuel tank quantities are off, as the yfz only carries 2.6 gallons. The weight of the two is what really threw me. A yfz weights in at 350 dry with electric start. (about 335 dry w/o). The honda with electric start weights in at 363 LBS. That 13 more pounds then the yfz!!!! With the kickstart its still heavier than the yfz at 357 lbs, 7 more pounds then the yfz with electric start, and 22 lbs more with kick start!!!!! Thats what cracked me up about this article, as it was showing the two's weight almost identical wet. WELL, how can that be when the honda holds more fluid and starts out 13 lbs heavier????????
There was a comment made earlier as to why the two are still neck and neck, even though the honda is making two extra horse on top, and the reason I think has a lot to do with "power to weight ratio" The yfz's is much better!
Also I too think it is to do with the fact that the honda is making most all of its power down low, and the yfzs is spread across the mid and high.
There is almost NO DOUBT in my mind, that if you where to put pipes, intake, and jetting on both, the yfz would be making more power then the trx once again. IN case you didnt see, HONDA put a half way decent stock exaust on the trx this year. Much less restriction. I read about it in "quad" mag, when they did the review of the trx. That is what is holding up the yamaha. Yamaha puts on "one clunker" of an exhaust, which both weights a TON and barely lets any exhaust out, especially with the cork still in it. If you where to take the little cork out of the yamaha, and dyno the two, you would have pretty equal numbers.
I am really happy that honda has stepped it up in the motor department, now they just have to figure out the rest of the quad.....except the brakes!
#19
01-09-2006, 06:27 PM
Shootout: YFZ450 TRX450R
I agree with you too, and your totally right that NO one really keeps there quads stock, especially on the track. However, IMO, it takes more to get the trx to run up to par with the yfz as far as handling and power WHEN normal mods are done to both. Take a yfz and put a pipe, intake and jetting, with cammod done, and then do the trx hrc kit, and aftermarket pipe, and intake, and the yfz will still be putting out better numbers and times. I hope that this year it is different for honda, and maybe now when you mod them both up in the motor department they will be closer than they where before. All I know is, most of the reason the honda has better hp numbers this year, stock, is because of the exhaust. As far as handling goes, nothing has changed, the yfz is better, and it takes a lot of money to through at the trx to make it equal to or better than the yfz.
As a "privateer" I cant see going with the trx still due to these reasons. Its MY money that has to be spent, and the money is more wisely spent on the yfz.
You can make both quads equal to or better than eachother, ALL IT TAKES IS MONEY!!!!
As a "privateer" I cant see going with the trx still due to these reasons. Its MY money that has to be spent, and the money is more wisely spent on the yfz.
You can make both quads equal to or better than eachother, ALL IT TAKES IS MONEY!!!!
#20
01-09-2006, 06:52 PM
Shootout: YFZ450 TRX450R
Stock to stock is the only comparison that is fair. Look at Doug Gust who beat out both the 450s on what was at one point a 400. If you put mods on each, whoever has the best handling and capabilities in the end wins. The Z can not touch the 450s on the track stock, but with engine mods, the handling is still up to par, and the engine can be made to be. Anybody with a decent chassis and a decent engine to start with can win it. Stock is really the only way to have a decent comparison