you have got to be retarded to get the 350 over the 400

 

So now we're gonna resort to name calling? Schools out for summer? I'm 31 years old, have a wife, two kids, and a professional career. I have absolutely ZERO reason to talk out of my a**, especially to a bunch of kids on the internet. I say what I'm saying from experience. I'll bet good cash you've probably never even ridden a Raptor350, just repeating what you've heard elswhere. On top of it, if you're ANYWHERE near Pittsburgh you're more than welcome to come ride with me anytime. You can even stay at my place if you need to (if my mommy will allow it....lmfao). I never said the Raptor is a "race machine", but remember neither is the 400ex..... Basically we're comparing two outdated bikes, outdated bikes that have survived this long because they're really not that bad. Read my earlier post again, and try to comprehend it this time. My only points are: 1) 400ex is NOT leaps and bounds above the Raptor. 2) Warrior/Raptor feel, ride, and handle NOTHING alike 3) The Raptor is much more capable than most people give it credit for. I actually like the 400ex, but I still stand firm that it's not far superior to the the Raptor. I'm 100% certain I can prove that, so my invitation still stands.....

 

The raptor is a nice quad though and there is not even a 50cc difference in the two a 400ex is nice but so is the raptor 350 and the raptor 350 is almost 1,000 dollars cheaper and I just have my raptor moded pretty good and piped i bet it can beat a 400ex right now but not stock

 

http://www.atvriders.net/atvtopspeeds.htm

If you check this site it shows a stock 400ex top speed at 64mph. A stock Warrior at 61mph. The Raptor is a little lighter, and a little quicker than the Warrior. So please explain to me again how the Raptor gets it's *** handed to it by a 400ex......

 

I seriously dont want to enter or escalate any "internet war" between the fans of these machines, but if anyone is missing the meaning of what I said earlier I will try to say it again straight up so that there isnt any confusion, and sorry to those who may be offended (raptor owners mostly I guess) but there isnt anything wrong with explaining the truth, like it or not.

I am not doing this in any way to defend one model, or dis another, but just to give a potential buyer good and real info to use in making their buying decision. If you already own one or the other then you know what you know already, and please dont bother trying to rewrite history, or post any rediculous attacks in defense of your purchasing decisions. These are not what I am interested in, and its really only about educating those who are comparing these models.

First off there isnt any comparison between the two machines, and they do not perform in any area on the same level. Sure they both can be excelent trail machines, but as sport machines and being ridden as such (at high speeds thru the trails or mx etc) it becomes very obvious that you can in no way compare them, and yes you cant even compare the so called "old tech" designs either.

As I stated in my earlier posts there are many reasons the warrior and raptor350 are good trail machines, but many of those same reasons plus a host of others are why they are not on the level of the 400ex when you start leaving the throttle wide open.

Some examples:

The 400 is a well balanced machine with excelent ergo's and handling (it should be since much of its original design was borrowed from the 250r). This is something the 350 is missing, and even though it has improved from the warrior it borrows all of its design from it still uses a similar frame and geometry. The very first time you attempt any kind of jump no matter if even a trail side berm that only allows a foot or two of air under the suspension you will immediately know that the 400 has a preferred front to rear weight distribution, and doesnt nose dive immediately like the 350.

Though they do share a similar braking design the superior suspension and geometry of the 400 allows its braking to work much better in slowing down the machine. I know its not a big point to many, but when your going fast or racing just being able to out break your opponet or trail side obstacle can make all the difference.

Once the speeds have increased and the suspension is actually working etc the handling advantages of the 400 become very evident. The lower CG combined with the superior suspension will not only allow higher speeds and faster cornering, but also be safer during the same situations.

No matter how you slice it the 400 comes out on top in these areas, and its design being based on a legend, and its success on race tracks all across the nation etc only reinforces this.

Sure you can update either machines suspension, and even alter its width or CG too, but anyone who has worked on or with both models knows that there will be much better results when your starting with the machine that was well ahead of the other in the first place.

As we all witnessed from the late model machines like the z400 or the higher end models like the yfz aftermarket shocks make a world of difference on a stock machine, and even the lower cost ones used by the mfg's (as opposed to pep's or elka etc) really do allow the machine to have a greatly improved suspension action over the previous boingers used in the past.

So even though the superior design of the 400's suspension and frame give it an obvious edge over the 350 I believe both mfg's could have done much better than they did, and for a limited amount of $$$ too. Both have dissapointing shocks, and I know I am not the only one who would have traded new "silly" plastics for better shocks on my machine, but enough for now and onto the heart of these things.


I left the engine comparison for last because it is an intersting one, and also one where both mfg's sold us short. Sure one let us down more than the other, but that is about as comforting as finishing second to last.

The engine in the 350 is an insult to a sport machine. I dont care how much anyone loves this model its not going to change my mind. Its a totally outdated design from the 80's (maybe even the 70's) that would be more suited for a entry level util atv, and just does not have the potential or design in any way to belong in a 2006 model sport atv.

Sure you can ship it off to four stroke tech or whoever and have a stroker kit and a host of other hi end mods put into it, but the improvment in performance and loss of long term reliabilty (not to mention the 4-6 thousand you will pull out of your wallet) just make it totally impracticle. You can add an aftermarket intake and exhaust and pick up some additional hp and get improved performance for a reasonable price, but even though it will be well improved it still will not be a "killer" by any means.

The engine in the 400 though once a proven winner in the xr400 two wheeler was not too far ahead of the 350, and was also borrowed from older technology etc. It does rev better, breathe better, produce more power, and even responds better to mods (it also has a potential to produce more power at a lower overall investment too), but it still wont be a killer without a large investment in mods even if not as much $$$ as the 350.

To finish up the engine part of this it comes down to old tech, and even older tech. 4 valves vs 2, and just the overall design of the engine which again favors the 400.

To me neither mfg should be happy with these engines, and neither should we as there are much better choices for them to have made for these machines that would have included liquid cooling (both engines) a newer better performing design (especially the 350) and even the use of seperate oil systems for the engine and the tranny.

I know both mfg would counter all of this with profit concerns etc, but at todays prices I wont accept this for either model, and especially the 350.

If you dont believe me or like my comments that is fine, but you can also see very similar basic comments from most every major atv magazine that has tried to compare these models in the past. Maybe we all forgot that before all the newer 450's were around those types actually tested these machines (ok many were of the warrior, but you can make the adjustments in your head to cover for the changes to the raptor etc), and though they worded things in ways to either excite and entice the mfgs or even as not to insult them you will find the basics are the same, and that is that the 400 outperforms the 350 in every area!!

 

I promise this will be shorter [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

If your looking at performance only there is some substance to that (even if some might find your comment offensive), but if you have limits to your budget or concerns for a machine that will be easier for an inexperienced rider etc the answer isnt as black and white for everyone.

I know my decision would be the same no matter to those concerns, but I would also be looking at well maintained used examples, and also including a few other models as well (including the z400, and cannondale, but thats me).

Still having owned two of the models I know the deal would have to be extremely sweet to buy the 350 over the 400, and even then it would only happen if it wasnt going to be my main ride.

 

Okay guys, here are all the facts of both that you need to know for now since ive ridden both of them quite a bit. Stock for stock, the 400ex has the 350 by a bike length and maybe a half. Then when you just put a slip on pipe on that rap350, that thing will dust a 400ex, believe me it is incredible how much it can change. The 350 is now in the range of stock z400s with that pipe on there, and dont anyone argue because i own a z400 and i have a friend up the road with an air filter and a gytr slip on pipe with his 350. And a fully piped 400 ex gets its *** handed to it by the z400 and the raptor 350 damn close with the z400 with the simple mods and it whooped this fully piped 400ex. It was a white brothers e series pipe. And dont tell me it is all rider because they were equal, i was on the 350 and my bro danny was on the 400 and i whooped him, and danny is a bit better better rider than me. What brought me along to racing the ex was smashing it into the ground by like 20 lenghts with the 660 when it was running out of gas and i had to swithc it to reserve during the race. I wanted to see the z400 face it and it whooped it pretty bad, and then the 350 and we took quite a few runs with the 350, takin turns draggin the 2 and the 350 won every time. For handling and jumps, the 400 has it, for smaller jumps the 350 is nice, very plush ride. Very nice bike, easy access reverse. The 400 is also a nice reliable bike, either of them would do. But one thing, the 350 sucks for wheelies if you dont drop the clutch a little. The ex has it there by far.

 

fasterthanyou22 I have to admit I dont fully understand what your point was, but dont forget that there are many more important things than having a higher top speed.

Not that I agree 100% with your listed results (dont completely disagree either) but just that top speed is one of the least important things to many riders, and things like handling, quality, price, ride quality, and a host of others come well ahead of it.

I know around here while I may be wide open very often I could most likely count the times I have been at top speed on one hand, and that isnt many.

 

Well i know that bud, its just that people have already stated enough on handling, price, reliability and whatnot. People were still arguing over who is faster, and i resolved that with my last post. It all depends on whether you want to keep your bike stock or not. The stock for stock between the 2, the honda may be a little faster, but when you mod them mod for mod the rap has the honda all the way believe it or not, that is the point i am trying to make here. I am just letting everyone know of my experiences on things, and i am a little tired right now so i am not making as much sense as i would with my eyes more that 1/4 of the way open damnit.