Grizzly 700 has cold start issues
Feb 5, 2007 | 07:29 PM
#51
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Trailblazer
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Grizzly 700 has cold start issues
Originally posted by: Yami450D
I don't have any special starting techniques and yes i know the rappy engine is basically the same so it's not a new engine as per say. I have been phoning all my customers to ask if they have experienced cold starting problems, and asked if they were kept outside or inside. either way they have started, now heres my question. The Grizzly 700's back this summer were delayed because at the last second the didn't meet emissions in the US, so rumour had it the leaned out the 700's a bit to meet emissions, we in Canada do not have as strict emissions issues as the US, hence the reason we have the Banshee. Is there any way that the reason we're not having many problems in Canada and the US customers are having problems is because the EFI is set differently, even though it's colder here normally??? just a thought, what do you guys think, doesn't make much sense to me, but's its all i can think of.
PS - this afternoon it's -31 Farenheit outside right now and has been similar to that, the last 2-3 days, my mechanic and i have had a brand new 700 with 2 miles on it outside, and a 700 demo with 480 miles on it outside the last 2 days, guess what, both started after maybe 4-7 seconds. Not trying to be a jerk, but we haven't had any problems and we've got lots of grizzlys out there in like i said -30 F conditions.
I don't have any special starting techniques and yes i know the rappy engine is basically the same so it's not a new engine as per say. I have been phoning all my customers to ask if they have experienced cold starting problems, and asked if they were kept outside or inside. either way they have started, now heres my question. The Grizzly 700's back this summer were delayed because at the last second the didn't meet emissions in the US, so rumour had it the leaned out the 700's a bit to meet emissions, we in Canada do not have as strict emissions issues as the US, hence the reason we have the Banshee. Is there any way that the reason we're not having many problems in Canada and the US customers are having problems is because the EFI is set differently, even though it's colder here normally??? just a thought, what do you guys think, doesn't make much sense to me, but's its all i can think of.
PS - this afternoon it's -31 Farenheit outside right now and has been similar to that, the last 2-3 days, my mechanic and i have had a brand new 700 with 2 miles on it outside, and a 700 demo with 480 miles on it outside the last 2 days, guess what, both started after maybe 4-7 seconds. Not trying to be a jerk, but we haven't had any problems and we've got lots of grizzlys out there in like i said -30 F conditions.
I think this is great to have a real dealer on the forum who takes the time to post!!!
The only way so far my Grizzly has started is by holding the throttle open part way prior and during cranking and even then 8 - 10 trys.
I think you may be on to something.
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
This could also explain why even with the EFI set to a setting of 15 I had issues, a setting of 40 showed too rich on the spark plug. I bet the ECM firmware for Canada is differant than the US.....[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
I think also that the setting through the LCD only sets the base line, You need to modify the idle and cold start algorithm, this is where most vechicles fails emissions is at idle. I've noted several of us are running a after market EFI and are not seeing issue of cold start, one guy said he adjusted his for a runability during cold but not for starting? What is this and what does it do? Does it replace the factory computer? Is it a chip?
I really think you are on to something!!!!
Feb 5, 2007 | 07:48 PM
#52
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Trailblazer
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Grizzly 700 has cold start issues
I posted several replys and questions to other posts but here is my update.
Dealer called and left me a message they think they fixed her.
They called the factory rep and he supposedly called around here in the mid west to other dealers.
Dealer told me they changed oil from 10/40 to 5/30CW oil and something about changing mixture setting again. Don't know value yet but will pick up unit tomorrow and let you know. Dealer said they came in on Sunday, temps around 10 degrees and unit fired right up. Now I've been told that before, no dis-respect to dealer, but...I did see a car parked outside dealer Sunday morning, and my ATV was parked outside. So I know they didn't simply leave it inside and say "oh it starts with no problem", which is a great sign!!!
Thanks Dallas for coming in Sunday to test the fix out!!!!![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
I bet Canada puts 5-30 CW oil in by default??? Forgot posters name....[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img]
Now our temps are really warm here in Colorado so it may take a while to really test this out. I'll leave it outside on side of garage and try starting before work if temps are down to below 10 degrees. I shouldn't just go out and try to start and then kill engine I think this will load it up over time and cause other issues. Best thing is just go use it on a cold day. Since I've had troubles each time I will really believe after she starts up on a few trips.
Dealer called and left me a message they think they fixed her.
They called the factory rep and he supposedly called around here in the mid west to other dealers.
Dealer told me they changed oil from 10/40 to 5/30CW oil and something about changing mixture setting again. Don't know value yet but will pick up unit tomorrow and let you know. Dealer said they came in on Sunday, temps around 10 degrees and unit fired right up. Now I've been told that before, no dis-respect to dealer, but...I did see a car parked outside dealer Sunday morning, and my ATV was parked outside. So I know they didn't simply leave it inside and say "oh it starts with no problem", which is a great sign!!!
Thanks Dallas for coming in Sunday to test the fix out!!!!![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
I bet Canada puts 5-30 CW oil in by default??? Forgot posters name....[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img]
Now our temps are really warm here in Colorado so it may take a while to really test this out. I'll leave it outside on side of garage and try starting before work if temps are down to below 10 degrees. I shouldn't just go out and try to start and then kill engine I think this will load it up over time and cause other issues. Best thing is just go use it on a cold day. Since I've had troubles each time I will really believe after she starts up on a few trips.
Feb 6, 2007 | 10:28 AM
#53
Range Rover
Joined: Feb 2006
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Grizzly 700 has cold start issues
Canada does not put in 5W30 from the get go. believe it or not, our ATV's have 20W40 in them from the factory if i remember correctly, which definately is not a good oil for winter up here, but the 700FI's still do start, no it ain't good for them so you should change to the Yamalube 5W30 CW oil, but they still start, that's why i think the EFI settings from canada to the US must be different, b/c that was at -30 F that they started.
Feb 7, 2007 | 01:56 AM
#55
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Joined: Nov 2006
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Grizzly 700 has cold start issues
coloradobubba,
I was NOT holding the throttle durring the starting process. It would stall after it was already running.
I tryed it in -0 temp and it still started after 4 turnovers. They must have put the thinner oil in mine from the get-go.
I was NOT holding the throttle durring the starting process. It would stall after it was already running.
I tryed it in -0 temp and it still started after 4 turnovers. They must have put the thinner oil in mine from the get-go.
Feb 7, 2007 | 09:09 AM
#56
Range Rover
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 180
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From: Western mountains of Maine
Grizzly 700 has cold start issues
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]Here in Western Maine mountain area, my Grizzly 700fi, started fine this morning. It is just a chilly
11 below on my thermometer. I got the Yamaha 5w30 Cw oil in the machine. Going out ice fishing
after it gets up to 10 degs above.
11 below on my thermometer. I got the Yamaha 5w30 Cw oil in the machine. Going out ice fishing
after it gets up to 10 degs above.
Feb 7, 2007 | 12:59 PM
#57
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Trailblazer
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Grizzly 700 has cold start issues
I'm starting to see a common thread here.
Using 5-30CW oil has helped several people.
Using a aftermarket EFI controller has helped others.
I picked mine up yesterday. Temps are around 60 here in Colorado, lows around 30. I don't expect any troubles in this temp range so I'm unable to confirm the 5-30 oil is the fix or not.
I'll update when we get colder temps I'm sure this will happen again before the end of Feb.
I did jump into the diag menu and poke around, temps reported at air box was 7 and engine at 5. I'm assuming this number is in C and not F, my outside temps was around 40-45 degrees F.
I did notice one thing, maybe it's just because it's warmier but the Grizzly cranks over much faster than before....maybe this will help.
Using 5-30CW oil has helped several people.
Using a aftermarket EFI controller has helped others.
I picked mine up yesterday. Temps are around 60 here in Colorado, lows around 30. I don't expect any troubles in this temp range so I'm unable to confirm the 5-30 oil is the fix or not.
I'll update when we get colder temps I'm sure this will happen again before the end of Feb.
I did jump into the diag menu and poke around, temps reported at air box was 7 and engine at 5. I'm assuming this number is in C and not F, my outside temps was around 40-45 degrees F.
I did notice one thing, maybe it's just because it's warmier but the Grizzly cranks over much faster than before....maybe this will help.
Feb 7, 2007 | 04:06 PM
#59
Range Rover
Joined: Feb 2006
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Grizzly 700 has cold start issues
That's a good question squeege. I have no answer for that one right now, but i'll see what i can come up with, anyone else have any ideas, we seem to have explained the possible grizzly problem, but it still don't explain why it won't start and a rappy does?
Feb 7, 2007 | 05:00 PM
#60
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Trailblazer
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Grizzly 700 has cold start issues
Grizzly has a altimeter, Rap doesn't. Race machine may not have one.
I base this on discussion with dealer when talking about Outlanders, CanAm.
He said units without altimeter would start in cold, top of line unit with altimeter was the hardest to start in cold weather. As you go up in altitude you are supposed to lean out your carb. B.S. I've rode at 9 K - 10 K feet with stock jets with no troubles at all. Yet you hear some people who are claiming you need to lean it out, I think it should be based on performance and spark plug color. Anyway corperate may be just following what they think is right to do. At least Yamaha allows us to adjust without changing the chip out.
I base this on discussion with dealer when talking about Outlanders, CanAm.
He said units without altimeter would start in cold, top of line unit with altimeter was the hardest to start in cold weather. As you go up in altitude you are supposed to lean out your carb. B.S. I've rode at 9 K - 10 K feet with stock jets with no troubles at all. Yet you hear some people who are claiming you need to lean it out, I think it should be based on performance and spark plug color. Anyway corperate may be just following what they think is right to do. At least Yamaha allows us to adjust without changing the chip out.