Oldman Wheeler~

I certainly don't wish to start an argument, but I know there are people who read these forums and are looking for facts, along with the opionions. But, I have 3 solid axle machines and 2 IRS machines myself, and there is no way a solid axle machine will out perform an IRS on off camber situations. I can place my IRS machines off camber along side my solid axle and the solid axle will tip over first, I know this from experience. Hell, that's the first thing I did to my IRS, because I wouldn't have bought it (i.e. more money, more maintance than solid axle)if it wasn't superior in stability for off camber situations. Now, that translates into what is considered a well known fact, IRS machines will keep all four tires planted on the ground longer then a solid rear axle. I don't know about you, but in my book that is what I call "sure-footed". In order to make that point, I can take one of my IRS machines, and one of my solid axle machines and perform a suspension flex; take pictures and post them to my web site, if you would like to see how an IRS keeps all four tires planted longer than a solid axle.

This is such a no brainer, I have to wonder if you made a typo on that comment....[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Have a great day,

SilverBear

 

I own a Grizzly and although I do not own a Praire, my cousin does, in fact, he owns both(We ride together about every weekend). Niether of us are by any means "brand loyal", however, when we go riding, he usually brings the prarie. Thats just the one that he likes better. I can say from experience, that he can, and does go any place that I do until we get into the very deep ruts. This is when the IRS shines. But he just finds another line and is right there with me. I am not trying to start an argument, just thought i would put in my two cents.

I'm glad that I don't own both machines. It would take me an hour to decide on which one to take. It just depends on what kind of riding you do.

 

<< there is no way a solid axle machine will out perform an IRS on off camber situations. >>




I think what Oldmanwheeler is talking about isn't suspension flex, but rather off cambers (such as riding on the side of a hill). In this case, a low center of gravity is important. The prairie was designed with a very low center of gravity. The grizzly has a much higher center of gravity.

For situations where suspension flex is important (such as rocks) any irs or act machine will outperform a straight axle.

I've always had a utility 4x4 and also a sport atv. Now I think I'll just sell my 300ex because the Prairie 650 replaces both. I have no trouble hanging with sport quads. If I feel like mudding, I just slap on the 589s and I can play in the mud.


I agree that both the grizz and prairie are excellent quads. If your riding is more sport oriented, then get the prarie. If it is more utility oriented, get the grizz.

 

Hay SilverBear, I want to see some flex pictures of your Grizz since youve taken off your sway bar, I wish you could take some before and after flex pictures but i know you wont be REinstalling that sway bar just to take a few pictures. In case your havent read a post i made to you on HardcoreAtv I was wondering if youve experianced any vibration in your handle bars when you ridding in fourwheel drive? Mine does, but mostly when slowing doun, its smoth in two wheel drive. My warrenty will run out in a month from now and i want to get everything fixed before then. Im hoping that the small vebration is normal and nothing to worry about.

 

I can't agree with OldmanWheeler at all on this off camber thing. I've had straight axle quads for about 13 years longer than I have had IRS or Semi-independant quads, and there is no way the conventional swingarm is more stable than a swingaxle or fully independant. I guess all things said, if the terrain is even (and I mean no bumps, just a straight smooth sideways downgrade) then they would be equal. I understand what he is pitching though. It does seem like the extra suspension travel would squat the IRS quad over. Not so unless you just really leaned to the downward side. Body roll is present in hard corners when there is force exerted to push the bike to one side, but on a technical off camber at low speed, there isn't any flex problem with the IRS quad.

Add a few roots or rocks or anything to uneven the terrain over the off camber, and the IRS and semi-ind. quads outshine the swingarm big time.

As far as this center of gravity crap, the Grizzly does not have a high center of gravity, and the Prairie does not have a low center of gravity. The feeling you get of tippyness on the Grizz is basically from the massive height of the front plastic. I was scared to death when I first got mine because you can't see the front tires and everything right in front of you is blocked out of view. The seat height is not really that much taller than anything else either. It is a fairly narrow quad as well, and that adds to this tippy feeling.

The Prairie is nothing to brag about because of any low center of gravity. Its about average really. Anything with that ammount of ground clearance is basically the same. Nobody mounts their engine high off the frame. People read something in an ad about a canted forward engine reducing center of gravity and then it makes it seem like nobody else does this. If you want a low center of gravity, get an old Foreman 400 or an older 300 King Quad or something with a little over 4&quot; of wheel travel in the shocks and lower ground clearance. Those quads truly have a low center of gravity. All of these other quads have close to 10&quot; ground clearance at the frame, and they are all about even in center of gravity. The exception to the rule are the Polaris IRS quads with the weight positioned more toward the rear.

If you own a 660 for over a month, you get used to the high plastic and you eventually realize that this is a much more stable quad that it looks like the first time you hop on it. Same goes for any quad that an unfamiliar rider gets on.


*** on that note, if stability is your main concern, go get an Arctic Cat. Nothing is more stable on sidehills, regardless of what type of axle setup it has.

 

For the record, I don't think the Grizzly is any better of a UTILITY quad than the Prairie. What can the Grizzly do utility-wise that is better than a Prairie???? Towing, what?? Nothing. Its no better. Thats just a cop out to find some advantage of the 660.

The actual difference is technical trail riding. The Grizzly is a bit better than the Prairie in that aspect (though I doubt it is much, and I can't see any place that one couldn't follow the other). The Prairie is better in the sport oriented things as well (though you aren't going to just run off and leave a Grizzly, it may not beat you but it will have no problem keeping up).

The differences are really not that much, and most come from whoever has what. These are two very closely matched quads, and 99% of the riders are dead set happy with whichever they got.

 

Thanks 92LT for clarifying my position. The low center of gravity is one of the key reasons I traded the Grizzly 660 for the Prairie 650. The bottom line is you should test both machines before you buy one and pick the one the best fits your riding style and the terrain you ride in. For me that choice was clearly the Prairie 650!

 

92LT~

I understand center of gravity issue, and sense I've never had the pleasure of seeing a Prairie 650, let alone riding one, I certainly can't comment if one is lower then the other. I wholeheartedly agree, though, that both machines are superb quads, they just fit slightly different markets. I would think the Prairie with it's V-Twin and solid axle would be the sportier of the two, and would also be better suited for the Dunes, or things of that nature, where as I personally would pick an IRS for the type of trail riding I do.

Supertiger~

That's a great idea. I've actually meant to get some flex pictures done for some time. I'm gone on an ATV trip this weekend, so that's out, hopefully the weekend after next. And, It's a piece of cake to put the swaybar back on and take it off, and actually sounds like some fun time to spend in the garage. I'll see if I can't do both for a good comparison, it should surprise those folks who still have the bar on. Thanks for the great idea! As for your vibration, I really haven't noticed any on my Grizzly. You may want to have your dealer take a look at it to be on the safe side, though.

Andy~

I agree, both are good quads. I really don't think anyone would be dissapointed in any of the high end utility quads. Personally speaking, I do believe, as I indicated in my earlier post, that for off camber situations, give me an IRS quad over a solid axle any day, whether it's a swing arm or swing axle. I think the biggest differences between the 650 and the 660 are the obvious ones; single cylinder and rear suspension. Not that either one of those makes the quads better then the other one, I think it those two differences shine in different situations, and people are most likely to buy one of the other depending on where and how they ride. For me personally, the Grizzly is the better suited quad (I ride in mountains and rough stuff), for my sister's husband the Prairie would be the better suited quad (he rides in the sand dunes), and while I'm sure the V-Twin delivers more sportier power, I don't think it's that much more than the 5 valve single the Grizz has.

Here's one for you....bought my father in law 27&quot; Bi/Tri claws for his birthday. I wanted him to get ITP rims because of the added stability (he does have a lift kit on his cat) due to the offset, but he didn't want to. He's now tipped his cat over several times and is now considering getting some ITP offset steel rims. Did you ever ride your cat w the claws on your stock rims? If so, how was the stability? Lastly, he was riding over a lake last weekend, and guess what broke? Drowned his cat. They got it winched out, and took em 3 days to get it dried out thoroughly...I don't think he's going to be riding on lakes anytime soon. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] He just sent me a pic of his cat with an outboard motor mounted on his back rack. It looks hilarious. (this is a joke, of course) I'll have to upload his picks to my web site one of these nights.

SilverBear

 

I had the Cat for a good while with the Claws on the stock rims. Maybe about 5 months. It was still extremely stable. I didn't have it lifted then though. It was more stable with the ITP's though. Its a pretty big difference in the offset with those wheels. My AC was just unreal when it came to off-cambers. The Grizzly is right there with it now though, because of the wheel and tire setup. Also, I have more traction for wierd off camber hills with the locker, so I can get myself out of crap easier. I proved that one day last year in the woods up above the house. The Grizz made it throug this tight little uphill turning spot over a bunch of fallen limbs and rocks and stuff. The Cat wouldn't have flipped over, but it wouldn't have climbed out due to the 3 wheeling differential in the awkward uphill turn. The tire in the air would have left me helpless. That was the first time I really appreciated the locker on the Grizz.

About my AC. I only flipped it once, and that was the day after I put the lift kit on. I caught hell from my cousin too, but the place I flipped in would have taken any quad. It was just stupid tire placement in a bunch of big rocks at the head of a ravine that I was trying to find my way around. I put a front tire in a hole and over she went. It wouldn't have mattered if it was lifted or not. The only thing that would have made it was one of those 8 wheeled goofy looking things in the magazines, where you see the guy floating a creek with a trolling motor mounted to the back rack.

I put the ITP's on the Cat last December, and the lift went on in March. Truthfully, I didn't notice the lift kit making the Cat any more unstable. Of course I had the tire/wheel setup on it too, but it was awesome in off-cambers. Anything that gives you independant wheel articulation is going to be better in off-cambers than a swingarm. Thats pretty much the truth.

One thing I have not understood in all this defense of the Prairie's straight axle though. For years, the Sportsman stood alone because of its IRS. The swingarm quads never even competed with it in that aspect in all shootouts. Now you hear the talk of IRS and every time a 650 is brought up, you hear all this jive about low center of gravity and how it is more stable. Where did that come from? You never heard that when they used to compare a 450S and a Sportsman. The 450S has a lower center of gravity than the Prairie and the same axle. What gives???

The Prairie is a good woods quad, and steers good in fast corners, but its not the number one choice in technical riding I don't think. It will get you by the same way the old 600 Grizzly and the 450S did, but I still think the IRS and semi-IRS quads perform better in that situation.

 

I could be wrong, but the last time I checked the Kawi site, the 650 had a turning radius of 10.2'. That is the same as the Polaris 6x6.

I've done some test riding on a Grizzly, it sure seems to have a tighter turning radius than 10'. Does anyone know exactly what the turning radius of the Grizzly is?