<< BansheeBrad,
I took a second to review some of your posts concerning your Banshee issues. Perhaps I am missing something but it really does appear that you hurt the engine yourself and tried to get Trinity to cough up a free replacement. Why don't you gather the courage together to call Harry and discuss the problem. I would like to hear both sides of the story rather than your one-sided slant.

Here are the posts that I found from BansheeBrad. First, some simple math tells me that BansheeBrad got at least 576 hours of engine time before he had a problem. If there was a factory defect, I suspect it would have appeared much earlier. When I see that all 3 of his buddies had the same problem at the same time, I suspect fuel as the cause. Cheap fuel and detonation will do nasty things to the pistons. IT LOOKS LIKE HE KNEW IT WAS NOT A TRINITY PROBLEM AND THAT IT WAS A WIESCO ISSUE AT BEST. I SUSPECT THAT BANSHEE BRAD SIMPLY OVERHEATED OR DETONATED THE MOTOR TO SUCH AN EXTENT THAT THE RINGS FORCED THE INDEX PINS OUT. WHO KNOWS. I NEED MORE INFO. TILL THEN, BANSHEEBRAD IS ON THE IGNORE LIST.
>>




If you read what I've posted, you'll not the pins that are supposed to keep the rings in place were over bored. IE the holes were way to deep. The pins would then PUSH IN (not come out)and let the rings spin.

Want to know how I know? We had a machine shop take apart a good and bad piston out of my bike and look at the pin holes, they extended way to deep into piston itself. Over time the pins would work themselves in.

Now it should be obvious to anyone what happens when rings spin on 2 strokes.

You can say it was fuel, but it's bull****, we weren't all together when these happened. I can tell you I didn't have 576 hours on my quad, maybe 5~10 weekends of riding, but not 576 hours (your math is a little off)

Defend trinity all you like.. doesn't bother me a bit. Hell I loved trinity in the beginning. I truly hope you don't experience the problems I did, and if you do, I hope you don't spend weeks/months waiting on parts from trinity.

It sucks to be sitting at home not riding cause you can't even pay for parts you need.

 

So, your machine shop took your good and bad piston and compared the pin holes -- finding that both were too large and too deep. One piston did not have the problem and one did???? I submit that bad fuel, too much timing, an air leak, a bad cylinder head, blown gasket, etc. could all cause the piston to overheat, cause the rings to expand too much (and close the end gap) push the pin or cause the ring to work the pin on a now soft piston and make the pin hole appear too large (on your good and bad piston).

I think all you have done here is prove that you got a load of cheap gas in a high compression race gas only motor. OR you overheated the engine with a poor quality cyl head, air leak or timing. Judging from some of your pictures, moving your 280 pound rear through muddy trails will also help overheat a Banshee. Beyond that, it looks like Trinity did not even do the assembly of your motor.

 

Seems I'm not the only one to have trinity issues..

I'm done with this thread..


Rob4092
(Pro Rider)
Phoenix, Arizona


Saturday, October 09, 1999 12:31 PM



Last month, I purchased a single carb kit for my Banshee from trinity Racing and had several questions reference jetting, needles adjustment, etc. I am not an expert on engine modifications, but have a good understanding how to perform these types of modifications. I telephoned trinity's &quot;1-800&quot; line for assistance and was told to call back on their &quot;regular&quot; line that charged me long distance if I wanted to talk with anyone in customer service. I was told the 1-800 line is only designed to take orders (ie: take your money). I immediately called back on their regular line and, much to my amazement, spoke to the same person who told me to call back! Why couldn't he have just put me through to Customer Support when I first called on the 1-800 line so I could avoid paying any long distance charges??? Anyway, this was only the begining! When I asked for Customer Service, I was put on hold for several minutes (on my long distance dime!). The same person then came back on and told me &quot;Technical Support&quot; was too busy to take my call and to call back later in the day. I called back three more times throughout the day and received the same exact response and treatment....ie: They were too busy to talk to me. I figure I paid for at least 20 minutes long distance during these wasted telephone calls while they figured they were &quot;too busy to talk with me.&quot; Well, on my fifth telephone call, I expressed my dissatisfaction and frustration and was finally put through to the &quot;Manager&quot; in Technical Support. Not only was he rude and short with me, he failed to answer any of my questions. After several minutes of converstaion with the &quot;Manager,&quot; he, without any warning whatsoever, transferred me to the nastiest, rudest person I have spoken to in a long time. She worked in their parts department and wanted to know &quot;what I needed.&quot; Everytime I began asking her question, she interupted me and provided an answer before I finished the question. This resulted in the wrong answer(s) since she never listened to my complete question(s). When I requested that she be more patient and allow me to finish my questions, she told me she didn't have time to speak with me. I can honestly say that I was never rude, overbearing, demanding or anything less than very friendly during my contcat with these trinity employees. If I had been anything less, I could understand their reluctance to help me. This simply was not the case, I was sincere, patient and understanding. This resulted in an overbearing, rude and discourteous response from the Technical Support Manager and Parts Department. In summary, I never received the answer to any of my questions. Therefore, I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND trinity RACING FOR ANYTHING AFTER THIS EXPERIENCE. The customer service I received during my contact was anything but helpful. Instead, I recommend to go somewhere that appreciates your business and will back up their products with friendly, helpful customer service and technical support over the telephone. There are many such companies out there. I am sure this post will receive negative and/or controversial responses. With this in mind, I am prepared to back my unfortunate experience up with my long distance telephone records as partial proof. I am not writing this post to &quot;bash&quot; or discredit anyone. If I had received better assistance on my second or third call, I would have forgotten this whole experience. Unfortunatley for me, this did not happen. I only want to make sure that others are aware of my unfortunate experience with trinity Racing, ie: &quot;Buyer Beware!&quot; Good Luck! Rob R. Phoenix, AZ 98 Banshee 98 Sport 400 [This message has been edited by rob4092 (edited 10-09-1999).]

-------------------------
1998 Lonestar/K &amp; T Banshee for me
1998 Sport 400 for da wife
1999 Blaster for my 11 yr old son
2001 Banshee for our friends
2001 Progressive Enclosed 20' Trailer


Rocky
(Trailblazer)
Somerset, New Jersey


Monday, October 11, 1999 11:28 PM



I had a tough time with trinity when I was shopping for engine mods for my banshee. They were not very helpful. I have had alot of luck with LRD I have their pipes and ported engine it runs great and very fast. Good Luck


blue_banshee
(Pro Rider)
LaPlace, Louisiana


Friday, October 15, 1999 10:43 PM



well i cant say i have had bad luck wit trinity but my buddies have and the engines they make are SLOW!!! i am satisfied with duncan and portmagic [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]


Rob4092
(Pro Rider)
Phoenix, Arizona


Sunday, October 24, 1999 6:43 PM



Wow is all I can say! I thought I would get slaughtered for my negative comments about trinity Racing. It seems all agree that they SUCK when it come to Customer Service not only with me, but everyone else who responded. There is a company that I cannot speak enough about. They are Lonestar Racing out of Tempe Arizona. Not only are there productes first rate and reasonably priced, their Customer Service is nothing short of PHENOMINAL!!! If you need anything for a Banshee, 250R, 400ex, etc., get a hold of Dan (Owner) or Lori (foxy and first-class girlfriend of Dan) at (480) 831-0062. Not only will they take the time to speak with you, they will give you honest information. Let the know &quot;Rob R.&quot; sent you and they will probably pay you special attention. Hey trinity (especially the parts lady), learn something from Lonestar and get with it. If you don't, be advised, word is spreading fast and the line at the Bankruptcy Courts is getting longer so I am told. Rob R.


kx80
(Trailblazer)
pearl river, Louisiana


Thursday, April 27, 2000 12:18 PM



i've heard that trinity's work sucks and alote of people have probs with stuff they moded for em. go with ct and the 240 kit i've heard its the best you get all kinds of stuff with it too like a bigger carb,pipe/silencer, etc.


btodd
(Trailblazer)
Wilton, Wisconsin


Tuesday, October 16, 2001 11:20 PM



Go to the Better Business Bureau website and check to see what trinity's standing is with them. It doesn't take long to do but you will first need to have trinity's address. I recently looked up CT racing and they have a good standing with no complaints in the past three years.

 

<< So, your machine shop took your good and bad piston and compared the pin holes -- finding that both were too large and too deep. One piston did not have the problem and one did???? I submit that bad fuel, too much timing, an air leak, a bad cylinder head, blown gasket, etc. could all cause the piston to overheat, cause the rings to expand too much (and close the end gap) push the pin or cause the ring to work the pin on a now soft piston and make the pin hole appear too large (on your good and bad piston).

I think all you have done here is prove that you got a load of cheap gas in a high compression race gas only motor. OR you overheated the engine with a poor quality cyl head, air leak or timing. Judging from some of your pictures, moving your 280 pound rear through muddy trails will also help overheat a Banshee. Beyond that, it looks like Trinity did not even do the assembly of your motor. >>



Once again you make assumption in my statements that I have not said.

Where did I say the holes were to large? Thats what I thought.. I didn't. I simply stated they were way too deep. Deep enough that the pins over time worked back into the pistons.

Seeing how I had a trinity Head, Trinity port work, Trinity timing plate, trinity pistons, Id say that wasn't really my problem? Now if you want to explain overly deep piston ring pin holes as bad fuel, please feel free to go ahead and say so. I don't buy it, and I don't agree. There would be other obvious problems with the piston dome, which I didn't have.

Beyond that, my real problem is still with Trinity customer service, or the lack there of. I didn't buy wiseco pistons, I bought trinity pistons made by wiseco. So why would harry send me to wiseco? Did I send my $1400 to wiseco? Nope, I sent it to harry. He completely blew me and the other people that were having the same problem off, even if it wasn't his fault, we still paid him/trinity. At a minimum harry should have personally got involved in the issue, and at least talked with wiseco.

As far as your cheap shots about hauling around my 280 pound ***, feel free to keep plugging away, it doesn't bother me. You're being ignorant to the fact that I'm not the only person to have problems with trinity or their service and that I might have a valid opinion.

I was, in fact, the same as you in the beginning. I thought trinity was the best thing since sliced bread. Perhaps things have changed in the last year or 2, it seems more and more people are pleased with trinity, but if you go back and look at trinitys record in 2000 and early 01, you'll see complaint after complaint posted right here on this board.

 

Hauling your 280 pound &quot;***&quot; around -- I was merely restating your own admission. A heavy &quot;***&quot; can have a substantial effect on an engine, especially one that runs bad gas.

On the pin issue, the pins are pressed into the ring land. The hole in the piston is smaller than the pin. Drilling the hole through the ring land does not concern me. I have build countless 474cc jet skis 1975-1985 where I had to relocate pins on a daily basis. If I recall correctly, I may have drilled many of the index pin holes through the piston. I have never seen a pin walk out of the motor except on a 550jet ski and a Blaster atv. In both instances, the engines were run hot and detonation (from bad fuel, timing, air leaks, or cooling) caused the ring end gap to close against the pin. With the end gap closed, even the slightest torsional movement of the piston during the stroke, or worst during detonation, could easily force the pin to work loose. I could see a loose pin working back from there. When you commented that you could tell because you checked the bad and good piston together, I suspect that both pistons were damaged at the time.

You say that you did not run for 576 hours before you had a problem. You only ran 5-10 weekends. Well, I can only go on what you post. Soooo, lets do the math togehter.

You said, I ride all weekend, like 5 to 8 hours a day of hard riding, for 3 or 4 days and I have to switch plugs. Seems to me my plugs only have about a 20 to 30 hour actaully usauge life. I always keep a set on the bike as spares. Nothing like fouling a plug 15 miles out and not having a spare.&quot;

Then you said, Tuesday, April 24, 2001 7:24 AM In my group of riders we have 3 bikes setup with Trinity 420 kits (like the one in my profile).All 3 are less than a year old and all three have scattered in the last month&quot;

Looking for the date I suspect you started riding the 420, I went from July 2000 since you said , &quot;Friday, July 21, 2000 2:31 PM I had mine shipped in and returned in less than 3 1/2 weeks, and that includes ship time of 6 days&quot;

Math time &gt;&gt;&gt; I see about 9 months of riding. You claim to ride 5-8 hours a DAY of HARD RIDING on a weekend (that would not include weekday rides, hoildays or other rides at tracks, etc). So, I took 8 hours times 2 weekend days (Saturday and Sunday) then multiplied by the weekends in 9 months. I could be wrong but that looks like 576 hours of riding.

Now I also want to point out that you first claimed 3 engines with the same problem. Now it is 4. Is there a memory issue here?? &quot;In my group of riders we have 3 bikes setup with Trinity 420 kit&quot; later you said &gt;&gt; &quot;he fu**ed me good on a banshee, defective pistons took out 4 motors between me and my friends&quot; I smell a liar in the bloom.

Now I don't want to forget to bring up your admission that you had killed your crankshaft before the 420 kit. That also tells me that you have a problem keeping engines together. By the way, did you ever find all those customers with Weisco pistons that had the same problem?? No.

I love your posts Brad. I raise issues about your statements and you avoid the issue you created and start digging back 3 years to poke at Trinity as if that will validate your BS. Is this why your girlfriend moved out? You just keep making yourself look more and more like the person nobody would ever want to help.

Oh, I almost forgot, send me a PM or send Harry a PM with the names of your 3 or 4 friends. That way we can see what the real story might have been.

 

*************************** HARRY YOU ARE THE MAN **********************
Harry at Trinity runs a first rate shop and goes above and beyond most shops even lsr
Harry at Trinity runs a first rate shop and goes above and beyond most shops even lsr
Harry at Trinity runs a first rate shop and goes above and beyond most shops even lsr
Harry at Trinity runs a first rate shop and goes above and beyond most shops even lsr
Harry at Trinity runs a first rate shop and goes above and beyond most shops even lsr
Harry at Trinity runs a first rate shop and goes above and beyond most shops even lsr
Harry at Trinity runs a first rate shop and goes above and beyond most shops even lsr
Harry at Trinity runs a first rate shop and goes above and beyond most shops even lsr
Harry at Trinity runs a first rate shop and goes above and beyond most shops even lsr
~~~~~~~~~~BansheeBrad &amp; Rob4092~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Say it with me now!!!!
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
Harry keep up the good work and I will be back in touch on 35mm carbs..thx Digger

 

Your math is still flawed. You make more assumptions than anyone I've ever dealt with. Where do I say that I ride every weekend?

Do you not have winters where you live and that you don't ride? Hocking is closed Dec 12/15 to 4/15 every year, so 9 months now equals 5. Ride about every third weekend, so now you have a total of 7 weekends (give or take) that the bike was actually used. 7 weekends, 2 days each, times 7 hours per day, you get 98 hours on the motor. That's 17% of your 576 assumed hours.

Another assumption, that I bought the bike new and in one piece. Which I didn't, it was used, hence why I replaced the crank right after I bought it. I'm not some cheap *** **** that just slaps sh** together. The crank had bearing issues, so I replaced it with a new wiseco crank while doing an engine upgrade. We went through the entire motor so we wouldn't have issues.

As far as going back and looking for other dissatisfied customers, I am simply showing you that I'm not the only one. You obviously have your head so far up harrys *** you can't see that *many* people have had a problem with his service.

After 3 people spent $1400 (each) on trinity product, with 3 people having the same issue with trinity pistons, do you not think Harry should have at least looked at the problem, even if it was our fault? I still think, and always will think that the pistons had issues, and we got the run around. If there wasn’t a problem with Trinity pistons why would Trinity have over sized pistons out of stock and have back orders for 5 to 8 weeks. 420 + .20 +.40 and +.60 were all out of stock for weeks. But hey, no problem with the original 420 pistons, right?

I still think, and I always will think Trinity customer service sucks. His attitude of wanting nothing to do with the problem and to call wiseco was completely unacceptable. I spent my hard earned dollars on a product, and he wouldn't even take the time to tell us if there was a problem. Just &quot;call wiseco&quot; (hey, at least he gave us Toms name and number ~*roll'n eyes*~) Either that or we could “get in line” for replacements, and he’d be happy to take another $250 apiece once he got the product we needed.

As far as giving harry the names, hey, if harry really wants to relive this problem, I'll be happy to give him names and numbers of the people that have had problems with the banshee pistons, but I don't expect harry to do anything, he didn’t last year, he didn't the first 10 times we called, he might now that we are showing just how lousy his customer service really is, but I doubt he will, he's too conceited.

So if Harry wants to step up and try to correct this issue, he can PM me and I will provide all the information he needs.

My question is why are you defending him? Where is he? I’ve bashed him on this issue for 15 months now and he hasn’t said a word...

 

What in the HE11 just happened to my post?[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

 

It mutated into something evil!! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif[/img]

 

Banshee Brad is simply mad that nobody really cares about his high hour engine failure that nobody would warranty.

Brad, even at 100 hours my opinion of how YOU ruined your engine is still valid. You need to sit back and evaluate where you stand in life my friend. You are just too bitter to be a fellow atv rider. Please stay on the stock Raptor life with a performance toy is simply out of your league.


Why do I defend Trinity? Good question. I could work with any shop of my choosing. I could share and discuss my R&amp;D with anyone. I elect to work with Trinity. The reason is simple. Harry is the only person in the industry that I have ever met who is completely honest and who tries to help everyone (even customers from other shops). I have never heard him talk down about another shop.

I doubt that I would be overstating that he is the King of the Banshee motor hands down. Now, he is quickly becomming King of the Raptor. As far as shops go, who else has 6 new CNC mills, a new $30,000 dyno with fuel/air and ping sensors, inside storage for over 100 atvs, at least 500k in inventory, 5-6 service bays, 2 porting benches, a big R&amp;D room and the nicest showroom on the planet.