First off I put some advice on here based on the bike that you said you rode before, and even said that you shouldn't get mad about my SUGGESTION but there you go getting mad and blowing up the [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img] sign's

But yet you can't make a decision on a bike to buy on your own!

Let me make this simple if you want to belive your buddy and buy a 400ex you will be riding beside him.

If you buy a Z400 or a Raptor then your buddy will be riding behind you!!!

That is the bottom line plain and simple if you have a 400ex (stock) that will run with a Raptor (stock) Then BY GOD I WANT TO BUY THAT 400EX !!! because it is ONE of a kind !!!

 

I can vouche for the valve adjustment causing a Raptor to lose power. I am right around 18 hours on mine, and need to adjust the valves bad. I will do it this afternoon. Anyway, I just had it out for a couple hours yesterday, and it really has a hard time even pulling the front end up in 1st gear! I actually stopped riding and took it home because of the power loss. It's been gradual, but really noticable this last time. When I first brought it home, the front end was up in 1st and 2nd without hitting the throttle much.

I was in your place a few months back, but to be honest, the 400 wasn't even a consideration. I looked at the Raptor, DS, and the Z. If you're not going to do any MX riding, I would get the Raptor. On the trails you describe, your buddy will surely be updating his 400 after a few rides. If you want to pay less, get the Z. I've read everyone elses post, and if you want them to choose, the consensus seem to be Don't Buy the 400ex, get the Z or the Raptor.

You'll be happy with whatever you get, because when you spend all that cash, a chemical reaction in your brain will make you beleive you have bought the best quad in the world...

Good luck...

 

<< (btw, im looking at the z400's, and i just got augest issue DW, cannibal vs z vs ex, the Z won!) >>



LOL Looks like some people DO listen to the mags. LOL

It doesn't sound like you are interested in MX and that was a &quot;MX&quot; shootout. That shootout also made me embarrassed that I actually own DirtWheels magazines [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img]. If you actually read the shootout, you will notice that the &quot;Best Mx'er&quot; is also the one that will bottom out the easiest, but will put up the fastest lap times for trail riders and retirees. Sorry, but if you haven't raced in a long time or you are a trail rider goin out to a track for the first time, you WILL NOT want a quad that will bottom out easily due to the fact that you will be landing short on doubles and table tops. A quad that bottoms out easily wouldn't be so bad for an experienced rider since they can ride and land smoothly, but the experienced racers had the fastest lap times on the Dale.

That &quot;shootout&quot; was a fashion show, but hey, looks matter a lot to some people.

All I'm saying is don't base your desicion on what other people say, ESPECIALLY MAGAZINES! Ride them all and see what you like. Hell, I would let you take the Dale for a spin if you lived closer.

Once again, power and speed don't mean **** if you aren't having fun. If I had more fun on a LT 50 than I do on my Cannondale, I would have bought the LT 50.

 

<< Hell, I would let you take the Dale for a spin if you lived closer. >>



THATS IT! IM MOVING TO TEXAS! Actually, when I get enough money, im going to be living either in alaska (white dunes) or somewhere where theyres nice cops and good riding. I hate canada.. it sucks. the cops are howdy duty but theres no dunes.

Yodaddy: I have every issue from 98-01 and up to this month. I was surprized the dale didnt win first? Was it because of cost? You could tell that the writers were almost trying to call the 400ex &quot;crappy&quot; power but they held it back lol.

All the 400ex has now is proven reliability and lower price in some places. I think, now, that honda is at the bottom of the chain and theyre going to do something to the 400ex in the near future.

I cannot afford a dale, and I cannot afford a raptor, and I dont want the &quot;tippness&quot; people say it has. I want a z400(changing my sig, again!)
but can I afford it? Can I pay interest on a Z? Are they reliable? Faster than a 400ex, with the handling of a 400ex, same price, reverse, liquid cooling, sounds great!

I guess im down to 2 quads, z400(affordable?) or 400ex(all i could get?)

but.. just how much power does a 400ex have? slappie, you said that on a raptor, or somebody said, that with a little tap of the thorottle the front end will be lifting for the sky! Does a 400ex do that? or does it need full thorottle to be stood-up in 3rd?

 

Right now, iv decided, im working towards a z400, but if i cant wait that long, ill put a down payment on a 400ex, and get these mods while im at it: 4 sets baja design lights (ya its pretty dark here), hand guards, headlight bush gaurds, GCD air scoops, shock skins, DID chain, 14ft sprocket, ac bumper, and thats all i need to be happy, and if i have money left over, itll be the wb rev box, wb cam, pipe, filter, and if im crazy enough to spend any more money, pep ZPS shocks! I have just named my dream quad, gawdayme.

ps - yodaddy: it seems they really didnt like the 400ex, look on the 1st page of the shootout, the z is roosting all over the 400ex [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

 

Copguy,
The 400 does lift the front end pretty easily, due to the light weight of the front end (no radiator, etc). I wouldn't say that it takes a &quot;handful&quot; of throttle but it does get up there with a good stab, even in second if you are going fast enough. I don't want you to think the 400 is a piece of sh#t if that is all you can afford. It is a great quad, handles great, etc but is a little outdated and not up to the power levels of the others. It is definitely not as fast as the Raptor or the Z and feels like it is built for a little smaller rider (I'm 6 foot 2 inches, 220 pounds). It feels like my knees are up in my freakin' elbows on that thing. My point is, it is in no way a bad quad and you would have plenty of fun on it. You just wouldn't be up to the pace of the Raptor or Z, but not many are! Good luck with your decision. My choices are: Raptor 1st, Z second and 400EX third. All are great quads.

 

Iv decided, which either one i can afford: raptor/Z, but i would rather have the Z because its got better handling and isnt as tippy. if i can only afford smaller, 400ex. Im also getting a wolverine for paintball.

 

Misery loves company, that's why your friend wants you to buy a 400EX so you two can ride side by side and he can say I told you so. get the Raptor, Blow tons of dirt in his face and say, &quot;I told you so&quot;....

 

Lmfao, that was funny.. The - ONLY - thing stopping me from getting a raptor is the &quot;tippy&quot; things people say about it. How bad is it? If you turn too sharp in 1st will it tip? I agree, the 400ex is a lil, too slow, but if i can afford it, man ill be so happy! Can a raptor spank a z400? If it can, thats what i want! (ps, my friend talked to me again, he said the 400ex has more usable power and its more comfortable)

 

Copguy, I'll offer you the only advice I've yet to see, thus far.

There is NO replacement for displacement. The only thing that even comes close is better cooling.

So, let's run this through, real quick-like.
Small engine with air-cooling? Low hp, low torque.
Small engine with liquid-cooling? High hp (due to high revs), moderate-to-high torque.
Really big engine with liquid-cooling? Almost more power than you need, but not quite (because... well... you can't have too much power).

As for the whole &quot;more usable power&quot; crap that your friend is trying to feed you... don't listen to him. I'm pretty sure that everybody's correct in that he just doesn't want you to buy something that's faster than his EX... he's jealous that you'll have something quicker. In fact, he's so jealous that he's feeding you PILES AND PILES OF CRAP!
I suggest you stop listening to him, then proceed to buy something faster than his EX. As Yosh said, buy a Raptor and roost all in his face.

Getting back to the &quot;usable power&quot; thing. I've ridden a Raptor and an EX. When you can quite literally forget what gear you're in because it doesn't matter, then you know you've got an engine under your seat that's putting out a great deal of usable power. No, I'm definitely not talking about the EX. At all. Personally, when I rode the EX, I always felt like I was straining it, especially compared to the Raptor.

The EX is just in another, lower, class.