That sounds like a pilot error problem to me[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img] I ride mostly 45" tight tech trail and if my wheels didn't go exactly where I pointed them, I'd be in a world of hurt on some trails I ride with drop-offs!

 

Man I wish I knew how to ride my Raptor so the tranny wouldn't blow. Hey hot-shoe can
you come up here and show me. Due to that my tranny is going out.
Since I rarely use reverse and make smooth shifts. But the damn thing still wants to grind itself
to little pieces.


Hey Mike thanks for the site, I'm step for step with ya right now. THANKS. Keep up the good work.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

garyc660

Yes my 4th gear wheel was trashed, but it has nothing to do with reverse. It had to be replaced because it is has the male dogs for 2nd gear to engage.

The male dogs on the 4th gear wheel, and the female slots on 2nd gear wheel is where the problem lies.

The proof is in the 2002 tranny, I have seen nor heard of any failures in the 2002 or later trannies, and the only changes made were to the dogs on 4th, and the slots on 2nd (this is the were the shift from 1st to 2nd engages) and the ratios of 1st 2nd and reverse. The shift forks are the same, and reverse is still there, but the failures seem to be gone.

 

If reverse was'nt there (like the european bike the engine came from), 4th gear wheel would not be moving back and forth.....right? So there would be no problem.....the 02 gearset is engineered too properly incorporate reverse.

 

garyc660,

I have never seen the transmission set up on the bike, so I'll accept what your saying. If reverse did not exsist and 4th gear wheel did not have to disengage from the 2nd gear wheel because there is no reverse, absolutely there would be no problem.

But, that is not the point I was trying to make, and not how the question was asked. The original poster asked if "USING" reverse on a raptor contributes to the tranny failure, and I said and I still say no it does not. It was a design shortcoming that exsists whether or not you "USE" reverse. Even if you don't use reverse, the 2nd and 4th wheels gears are still disengaged when the other gears are engaged.

Does the problem exsist because reverse exsists? You say it does, and I can see were you could be right, but I myself don't have enough knowledge of the bike motor to form an opinion.

Does USING reverse contribute to the tranny failures as was originally asked, I say no it does not, and am not sure of your opinion on this matter?

I do know that the 2001's taller gear ratios put more stress on the gears, and the 2001's wide gap between 1st and 2nd ratios contributes to more missed shifts. A 12 tooth countershaft sprocket will help combat both of these tremendously.

I would also like to add that I rode mine very hard (with a 12th countershaft sprocket) for a year and a half without any problems, and what took it out was me drag racing with a lowering kit and a wheelie bar in some very tacky dirt. It felt like it was about to pull my arms off in 1st and 2nd, and I finnally missed 2nd gear hard and that did it.

Can you guide me towards any info on the bike the motor came from?

 

Check this link too Alba's parts finder...pick here
Let me explain with more detail.....when reverse is engaged, 4th gear wheel (item no. 15 at the link) rolls out and effectively engages into reverse gear wheel 1 (item no 11 at the link). When the 01 Raptor is taken out of reverse, 4th gear wheel slides back and locks / GRINDS into 2nd gear wheel (item no 16 at the link). Over a period of time, the dogs on 4th gear wheel round slightly. 4th gear wheel and 2nd gear wheel cannot stay locked together under power due too less surface area + the rounded 4th gear dogs are actually pulling the 2 gears apart under a load. What happens next? The gears finally come apart, clashing back together....and the rider thinks he missed a gear....he did'nt miss a gear, his gearset failed him. The European streetbikes (SZR 660, MZ 660 Baghira, XTZ 660 Tenare) where the Raptor engine was derived from had the same exact internal gear ratios...Yamaha added reverse and assumed the set-up would hold up. They were wrong. Hope this helps.

 

It disengages everytime nuetral is hit or the bike is in another gear other than 2nd. One thing I would never do from after looking at the gearset now is go directly from reverse through 1st and onto 2nd gear, it doesnt seem like it would let the gearset setup properly or set the dogs near deep enough into 2nd gear (effectively a missed gear and just past nuetral). I had done this quite a few times (never grinding) when backing up to start at a monster hill that has very little "runway" so instead of shifting up on the hill we start in second at the bottom..

I feel the ratio of the gear, how the gear was made, the puny shift fork and the broad stroke of 4th gear wheel coming back from reverse are my primary theories on why the tranny takes a dive. A light motorcycle with the same gearset exerts alot less force on the same gears than a heavier quad bouncing the rear wheels off a rock pinned in 2nd gear. Bad yamaha, very bad.

 

[/quote]When the 01 Raptor is taken out of reverse, 4th gear wheel slides back and locks / GRINDS into 2nd gear wheel (item no 16 at the link[/quote]

I don't agree with the above quote on 2 points.

1. When you take it out of reverse the tranny is motionless (at least this was the case everytime I used reverse). The quad is sitting still which means the drive axle (item 10) is not moving, and the clutch is pulled in which means the main axle (item 1) isn't moving. So how can you get a GRIND from a motionless gear sliding into another motionless gear? And even if it weren't motionless, why would it GRIND any worst than any other shift? Not because it is spinning backwards, it is only spinning backwards while the quad is in motion backwards.

2. When I had mine apart we spun the motor and clicked through the gears many many times, and as I remember it, 4th gear wheel (item 15) and 2nd gear wheel (item 16) do not engage when you shift out of reverse, 4th gear wheel slides to a point in between 2nd and reverse, when the shift from 1st gear to 2nd gear is made is the only time they engage each other. If they engaged when shifting from reverse, (which puts you in 1st) that would mean every time you shift from 1st to 2nd they would be egaged, then disengage as you pass netrual and then re-enage as you go to 2nd (they would then have disengage when going to netrual, because the 2nd gear pinion (item5) is on splines so it can't disengage).

[/quote]Over a period of time, the dogs on 4th gear wheel round slightly. 4th gear wheel and 2nd gear wheel cannot stay locked together under power due too less surface area + the rounded 4th gear dogs are actually pulling the 2 gears apart under a load.[/quote]

This quote I agree with totally, but what causes it is missed shifts from 1st to 2nd which are too common because of a sloppy linkage shifter, too tall 1st and 2nd gear ratios, and too large of a gap between 1st and 2nd gear ratios, then the fact that the quad is heavier and has more traction than the bike the motor was designed for doesn't help either.

Of course this is my opinion, based on my limited first hand experience [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

Thanks for you help guys. So what I get from this is that the reverse is the culprit weather you use it or not. But it also could be that the tranny was designed for a one wheel set-up to begin with, Right.

I know where there might be an '01 for sell and I thought I might check into it but it sounds like it would be to much of a hassel.

 

When reverse is disengaged, you go directly too first gear, no neutral. Ever hit neutral when shifting out of reverse while riding? Nope. The 01 tranny is not designed for reverse....again, it came directly from a street bike with no reverse. Reverse is the culprit. Hope this helps.