atv 150cc stator testing no spark
Nov 19, 2011 | 09:30 PM
#11
Electrical Expert
Likes High Voltage In The Tub!
Likes High Voltage In The Tub!
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,260
Likes: 14
From: Tracy, California, USA
I found a 150cc baja quad wiring diagram, and it does indeed show a four pin DC powered CDI installed. I gave you a procedure for measuring a six pin DC CDI since that is more common for 150cc machines. I had a better 4 pin CDI procedure which I could have posted, but it looks like you did quite well translating over from the 6 pin procedure 
.
That black box thing isn't on the diagram I have. I'm wondering if it is some sort of remote control module. What happens if you just unplug this and then try to start up the quad?
My thinking is this: You have 43 ohms to ground (your response to question #3) on your timing trigger wire at the CDI. This is wrong. Then you unplug this black box and the timing trigger resistance becomes normal. So the black box is messing with the timing trigger signal which it should not do. The black box also ties into the starter solenoid wiring which suggests it is part of a remote start/stop unit, and because it messes with the trigger wire signal without pressing a stop button on the remote it must be bad.
Normally a remote module wires grounds the kill switch pin on a five or six pin CDI to remotely stop the engine. But on a four pin CDI (which has no kill pin) the only way it can stop the engine is to ground the timing trigger signal.
Your #4 answer doesn't add up. If you had 43 ohms (0.043 KOhms) to ground you can't have 0.5 volts AC of trigger voltage while cranking. While you doing the other tests could you please recheck that?
Also, where does the blue yellow wire from the stator switch over to black white? Is this color transition right at the stator to wiring harness connection? In other words, is the stator wire blue yellow, and it hooks to the wiring harness where the wiring harness color is black white? Or is the the wiring harness side color at the stator blue yellow where it enters the harness and it reappears at the CDI as black white? Wires entering the wire harness that are one color don't come back out of the wiring harness a totally different color. So if this is the case then the trigger wire is going through something else first (like perhaps another switch).
.That black box thing isn't on the diagram I have. I'm wondering if it is some sort of remote control module. What happens if you just unplug this and then try to start up the quad?
My thinking is this: You have 43 ohms to ground (your response to question #3) on your timing trigger wire at the CDI. This is wrong. Then you unplug this black box and the timing trigger resistance becomes normal. So the black box is messing with the timing trigger signal which it should not do. The black box also ties into the starter solenoid wiring which suggests it is part of a remote start/stop unit, and because it messes with the trigger wire signal without pressing a stop button on the remote it must be bad.
Normally a remote module wires grounds the kill switch pin on a five or six pin CDI to remotely stop the engine. But on a four pin CDI (which has no kill pin) the only way it can stop the engine is to ground the timing trigger signal.
Your #4 answer doesn't add up. If you had 43 ohms (0.043 KOhms) to ground you can't have 0.5 volts AC of trigger voltage while cranking. While you doing the other tests could you please recheck that?
Also, where does the blue yellow wire from the stator switch over to black white? Is this color transition right at the stator to wiring harness connection? In other words, is the stator wire blue yellow, and it hooks to the wiring harness where the wiring harness color is black white? Or is the the wiring harness side color at the stator blue yellow where it enters the harness and it reappears at the CDI as black white? Wires entering the wire harness that are one color don't come back out of the wiring harness a totally different color. So if this is the case then the trigger wire is going through something else first (like perhaps another switch).
Nov 20, 2011 | 08:08 PM
#12
Thread Starter
|
Weekend Warrior
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
I found a 150cc baja quad wiring diagram, and it does indeed show a four pin DC powered CDI installed. I gave you a procedure for measuring a six pin DC CDI since that is more common for 150cc machines. I had a better 4 pin CDI procedure which I could have posted, but it looks like you did quite well translating over from the 6 pin procedure .
thanks
That black box thing isn't on the diagram I have. I'm wondering if it is some sort of remote control module. What happens if you just unplug this and then try to start up the quad?
not on the wiring i printed out.it is called a stop relay part #ba150-120. unpluged will not crank.
My thinking is this: You have 43 ohms to ground (your response to question #3) on your timing trigger wire at the CDI. This is wrong. Then you unplug this black box and the timing trigger resistance becomes normal. So the black box is messing with the timing trigger signal which it should not do. The black box also ties into the starter solenoid wiring which suggests it is part of a remote start/stop unit, and because it messes with the trigger wire signal without pressing a stop button on the remote it must be bad.
i think so to,will find one this week. with the key off it will show 130 ? maybe the key should be off for the test? i was taking a break and turned the key off,then seen the meter.
Normally a remote module wires grounds the kill switch pin on a five or six pin CDI to remotely stop the engine. But on a four pin CDI (which has no kill pin) the only way it can stop the engine is to ground the timing trigger signal.
Your #4 answer doesn't add up. If you had 43 ohms (0.043 KOhms) to ground you can't have 0.5 volts AC of trigger voltage while cranking. While you doing the other tests could you please recheck that?
rechecked,rechecked, about 10 times, same 0.5 acv
Also, where does the blue yellow wire from the stator switch over to black white? Is this color transition right at the stator to wiring harness connection? In other words, is the stator wire blue yellow, and it hooks to the wiring harness where the wiring harness color is black white? Or is the the wiring harness side color at the stator blue yellow where it enters the harness and it reappears at the CDI as black white? Wires entering the wire harness that are one color don't come back out of the wiring harness a totally different color. So if this is the case then the trigger wire is going through something else first (like perhaps another switch).
.thanks
That black box thing isn't on the diagram I have. I'm wondering if it is some sort of remote control module. What happens if you just unplug this and then try to start up the quad?
not on the wiring i printed out.it is called a stop relay part #ba150-120. unpluged will not crank.
My thinking is this: You have 43 ohms to ground (your response to question #3) on your timing trigger wire at the CDI. This is wrong. Then you unplug this black box and the timing trigger resistance becomes normal. So the black box is messing with the timing trigger signal which it should not do. The black box also ties into the starter solenoid wiring which suggests it is part of a remote start/stop unit, and because it messes with the trigger wire signal without pressing a stop button on the remote it must be bad.
i think so to,will find one this week. with the key off it will show 130 ? maybe the key should be off for the test? i was taking a break and turned the key off,then seen the meter.
Normally a remote module wires grounds the kill switch pin on a five or six pin CDI to remotely stop the engine. But on a four pin CDI (which has no kill pin) the only way it can stop the engine is to ground the timing trigger signal.
Your #4 answer doesn't add up. If you had 43 ohms (0.043 KOhms) to ground you can't have 0.5 volts AC of trigger voltage while cranking. While you doing the other tests could you please recheck that?
rechecked,rechecked, about 10 times, same 0.5 acv
Also, where does the blue yellow wire from the stator switch over to black white? Is this color transition right at the stator to wiring harness connection? In other words, is the stator wire blue yellow, and it hooks to the wiring harness where the wiring harness color is black white? Or is the the wiring harness side color at the stator blue yellow where it enters the harness and it reappears at the CDI as black white? Wires entering the wire harness that are one color don't come back out of the wiring harness a totally different color. So if this is the case then the trigger wire is going through something else first (like perhaps another switch).
Nov 21, 2011 | 11:19 PM
#13
Electrical Expert
Likes High Voltage In The Tub!
Likes High Voltage In The Tub!
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,260
Likes: 14
From: Tracy, California, USA
My responses in red:
the stator wire harness bl/w then at plug to bk/w all the way to cdi and tees off to the kill switch. then at kill switch harness plug goes back to bl/w. at solenoid harness plug the color change to bl/w to black box .and the tail light wires at the plugs change colors.they are making it harder to trace the wiring. [Changing colors at the pigtail wires going into the plug on modules is very common. The quad manufacturers don't have any control over that since these are generic oem devices bought on the open market. What is important is the color of the wire going into the harness. The idea is that the same wire when it comes out of the harness wil be the same color. And quads tend to use the same color wire for the same function. Thus all black/white wires on your quad or most likely kill switch/trigger wires and they are all tied together.]
Originally Posted by LynnEdwards
I found a 150cc baja quad wiring diagram, and it does indeed show a four pin DC powered CDI installed. I gave you a procedure for measuring a six pin DC CDI since that is more common for 150cc machines. I had a better 4 pin CDI procedure which I could have posted, but it looks like you did quite well translating over from the 6 pin procedure .
thanks
That black box thing isn't on the diagram I have. I'm wondering if it is some sort of remote control module. What happens if you just unplug this and then try to start up the quad?
not on the wiring i printed out.it is called a stop relay part #ba150-120. unpluged will not crank.[I have no idea what this black module is if it is not a remote. Does it have an antenna wire about 6" long dangling out of it? What happens if you unplug the relay, turn on the ignition switch, and the jump across the starter solenoid posts with a screwdriver? (be sure you're in neutral and the brake is set when you do this) Do you get spark? Does the quad start?]
My thinking is this: You have 43 ohms to ground (your response to question #3) on your timing trigger wire at the CDI. This is wrong. Then you unplug this black box and the timing trigger resistance becomes normal. So the black box is messing with the timing trigger signal which it should not do. The black box also ties into the starter solenoid wiring which suggests it is part of a remote start/stop unit, and because it messes with the trigger wire signal without pressing a stop button on the remote it must be bad.
i think so to,will find one this week. with the key off it will show 130 ? maybe the key should be off for the test? i was taking a break and turned the key off,then seen the meter. [I don't think so, but I really don't know what this box is doing. But it still seems like the box is messing with the trigger signal which it should not be doing, and from this last little bit of info it appears it only messes with the trigger signal when it is powered up (through the ignition switch) further suggesting it is not working right]
Normally a remote module wires grounds the kill switch pin on a five or six pin CDI to remotely stop the engine. But on a four pin CDI (which has no kill pin) the only way it can stop the engine is to ground the timing trigger signal.
Your #4 answer doesn't add up. If you had 43 ohms (0.043 KOhms) to ground you can't have 0.5 volts AC of trigger voltage while cranking. While you doing the other tests could you please recheck that?
rechecked,rechecked, about 10 times, same 0.5 acv [This is still a mystery to me. The output resistance of the pickup coil is 130 ohms. Adding 40 ohms to ground should reduce it to 1/4 of that. 0.5 volts is already on the high side even for an unloaded trigger coil. ]
Also, where does the blue yellow wire from the stator switch over to black white? Is this color transition right at the stator to wiring harness connection? In other words, is the stator wire blue yellow, and it hooks to the wiring harness where the wiring harness color is black white? Or is the the wiring harness side color at the stator blue yellow where it enters the harness and it reappears at the CDI as black white? Wires entering the wire harness that are one color don't come back out of the wiring harness a totally different color. So if this is the case then the trigger wire is going through something else first (like perhaps another switch).
I found a 150cc baja quad wiring diagram, and it does indeed show a four pin DC powered CDI installed. I gave you a procedure for measuring a six pin DC CDI since that is more common for 150cc machines. I had a better 4 pin CDI procedure which I could have posted, but it looks like you did quite well translating over from the 6 pin procedure .
thanks
That black box thing isn't on the diagram I have. I'm wondering if it is some sort of remote control module. What happens if you just unplug this and then try to start up the quad?
not on the wiring i printed out.it is called a stop relay part #ba150-120. unpluged will not crank.[I have no idea what this black module is if it is not a remote. Does it have an antenna wire about 6" long dangling out of it? What happens if you unplug the relay, turn on the ignition switch, and the jump across the starter solenoid posts with a screwdriver? (be sure you're in neutral and the brake is set when you do this) Do you get spark? Does the quad start?]
My thinking is this: You have 43 ohms to ground (your response to question #3) on your timing trigger wire at the CDI. This is wrong. Then you unplug this black box and the timing trigger resistance becomes normal. So the black box is messing with the timing trigger signal which it should not do. The black box also ties into the starter solenoid wiring which suggests it is part of a remote start/stop unit, and because it messes with the trigger wire signal without pressing a stop button on the remote it must be bad.
i think so to,will find one this week. with the key off it will show 130 ? maybe the key should be off for the test? i was taking a break and turned the key off,then seen the meter. [I don't think so, but I really don't know what this box is doing. But it still seems like the box is messing with the trigger signal which it should not be doing, and from this last little bit of info it appears it only messes with the trigger signal when it is powered up (through the ignition switch) further suggesting it is not working right]
Normally a remote module wires grounds the kill switch pin on a five or six pin CDI to remotely stop the engine. But on a four pin CDI (which has no kill pin) the only way it can stop the engine is to ground the timing trigger signal.
Your #4 answer doesn't add up. If you had 43 ohms (0.043 KOhms) to ground you can't have 0.5 volts AC of trigger voltage while cranking. While you doing the other tests could you please recheck that?
rechecked,rechecked, about 10 times, same 0.5 acv [This is still a mystery to me. The output resistance of the pickup coil is 130 ohms. Adding 40 ohms to ground should reduce it to 1/4 of that. 0.5 volts is already on the high side even for an unloaded trigger coil. ]
Also, where does the blue yellow wire from the stator switch over to black white? Is this color transition right at the stator to wiring harness connection? In other words, is the stator wire blue yellow, and it hooks to the wiring harness where the wiring harness color is black white? Or is the the wiring harness side color at the stator blue yellow where it enters the harness and it reappears at the CDI as black white? Wires entering the wire harness that are one color don't come back out of the wiring harness a totally different color. So if this is the case then the trigger wire is going through something else first (like perhaps another switch).
Nov 22, 2011 | 07:01 PM
#14
Thread Starter
|
Weekend Warrior
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
LYNN i thank you for all the help.i by passed that black box, it will crank but no spark, test#3=130,#4=00.5,#5=00.0 . then looking over a wiring diagram for a baja 150 the hot and ground on the cdi plug are switch,so i tryed it same readings as above, but i have spark.but it wont fire,even tryed ether. i dont know if some how the spark timming is off.i used a timming light and it is close.has good compression 150 cranking for 3 seconds,it shoots right up.what you think about test #5 00.0 and spark using 200 acv and pin ground. this thing ran up till it lost spark then sat a couple of months.i am glad i got it for free,it has been a real test. could end up in the junk pile. thanks lynn, pete
Nov 24, 2011 | 12:51 AM
#16
Electrical Expert
Likes High Voltage In The Tub!
Likes High Voltage In The Tub!
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,260
Likes: 14
From: Tracy, California, USA
LYNN i thank you for all the help.i by passed that black box, it will crank but no spark, test#3=130,#4=00.5,#5=00.0 . then looking over a wiring diagram for a baja 150 the hot and ground on the cdi plug are switch,so i tryed it same readings as above, but i have spark.but it wont fire,even tryed ether. i dont know if some how the spark timming is off.i used a timming light and it is close.has good compression 150 cranking for 3 seconds,it shoots right up.what you think about test #5 00.0 and spark using 200 acv and pin ground. this thing ran up till it lost spark then sat a couple of months.i am glad i got it for free,it has been a real test. could end up in the junk pile. thanks lynn, pete
I'm very skeptical. This is just too weird to believe. Are taking into consideration that looking into the wiring harness the CDI connector face is a mirror image of the CDI picture? You have to flip over the connector in the harness to plug it into the CDI... You know I'm just a person who understands electronics, and can analyze things well in unknown situations when I am measuring things myself. I'm at a real disadvantage on two fronts when trying to diagnose things remotely (such as in this case). First I have no idea what your true wiring diagram is, and second, I have no idea if you are measuring things correctly. Bad data absolutely kills any correct chance of correct conclusions, so I hope you understand my skeptical stance....
The lack of voltage at the coil indicates that the CDI isn't being triggered (or is bad, or doesn't have power, or doesn't have a ground).
Your trigger voltage makes no sense either... You always have 0.5 volts AC while cranking whether the output of the trigger coil is loaded down with 43 ohms or not. This is wrong and makes no sense.
Nov 28, 2011 | 05:14 PM
#17
Thread Starter
|
Weekend Warrior
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
This is so weird. You switched the 12 volt and ground wires to the CDI? And this new wiring disagrees with the 4 pin generic CDI wiring? And the CDI looks like the picture of a 4 pin CDI? And with switched wiring you have spark?
yes, if you google baja atv 150cc wire harness.you will see the + and - is switched at the cdi.
I'm very skeptical. This is just too weird to believe. Are taking into consideration that looking into the wiring harness the CDI connector face is a mirror image of the CDI picture? You have to flip over the connector in the harness to plug it into the CDI... You know I'm just a person who understands electronics, and can analyze things well in unknown situations when I am measuring things myself. I'm at a real disadvantage on two fronts when trying to diagnose things remotely (such as in this case). First I have no idea what your true wiring diagram is, and second, I have no idea if you are measuring things correctly. Bad data absolutely kills any correct chance of correct conclusions, so I hope you understand my skeptical stance....
The lack of voltage at the coil indicates that the CDI isn't being triggered (or is bad, or doesn't have power, or doesn't have a ground).
Your trigger voltage makes no sense either... You always have 0.5 volts AC while cranking whether the output of the trigger coil is loaded down with 43 ohms or not. This is wrong and makes no sense.
yes, if you google baja atv 150cc wire harness.you will see the + and - is switched at the cdi.
I'm very skeptical. This is just too weird to believe. Are taking into consideration that looking into the wiring harness the CDI connector face is a mirror image of the CDI picture? You have to flip over the connector in the harness to plug it into the CDI... You know I'm just a person who understands electronics, and can analyze things well in unknown situations when I am measuring things myself. I'm at a real disadvantage on two fronts when trying to diagnose things remotely (such as in this case). First I have no idea what your true wiring diagram is, and second, I have no idea if you are measuring things correctly. Bad data absolutely kills any correct chance of correct conclusions, so I hope you understand my skeptical stance....
The lack of voltage at the coil indicates that the CDI isn't being triggered (or is bad, or doesn't have power, or doesn't have a ground).
Your trigger voltage makes no sense either... You always have 0.5 volts AC while cranking whether the output of the trigger coil is loaded down with 43 ohms or not. This is wrong and makes no sense.
Nov 29, 2011 | 12:46 AM
#18
Electrical Expert
Likes High Voltage In The Tub!
Likes High Voltage In The Tub!
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,260
Likes: 14
From: Tracy, California, USA
Pete,
Thanks for reporting back. I'm not always right, and if I don't get any feed back I'll never know to flag this subject as something that may need more research.
I'd never heard of a 150cc quad with a four pin CDI, yet I now have a diagram (thanks to you) showing that this is the case for at least some Baja 150cc quads. I've never seen a "stop relay", nor have I see wiring diagram showing one. I searched on google and could not find any info. This is still a mystery to me.
I also searched for "baja atv 150cc wire harness" and found nothing about reversed CDI power wiring. I also searched for other phrases like "Baja CDI wiring" etc, and found nothing as well. If it is handy, can you provide a link to the the 'reversed CDI power wiring' stuff you found with google?
I totally believe you are reporting the results as you see them. No question at all there, I believe everyone does that. But I get a lot of "results" from posters that don't stand up to scrutiny and later fade away - so I have to be skeptical at times or I would always be just going in circles.
This subject has my attention. I will be listening and watching for any and all info on this subject. As time goes by the knowledge base grows, and the problems (hopefully) get easier...
Again I sincerely appreciate your feedback...
Lynn
Thanks for reporting back. I'm not always right, and if I don't get any feed back I'll never know to flag this subject as something that may need more research.
I'd never heard of a 150cc quad with a four pin CDI, yet I now have a diagram (thanks to you) showing that this is the case for at least some Baja 150cc quads. I've never seen a "stop relay", nor have I see wiring diagram showing one. I searched on google and could not find any info. This is still a mystery to me.
I also searched for "baja atv 150cc wire harness" and found nothing about reversed CDI power wiring. I also searched for other phrases like "Baja CDI wiring" etc, and found nothing as well. If it is handy, can you provide a link to the the 'reversed CDI power wiring' stuff you found with google?
I totally believe you are reporting the results as you see them. No question at all there, I believe everyone does that. But I get a lot of "results" from posters that don't stand up to scrutiny and later fade away - so I have to be skeptical at times or I would always be just going in circles.
This subject has my attention. I will be listening and watching for any and all info on this subject. As time goes by the knowledge base grows, and the problems (hopefully) get easier...
Again I sincerely appreciate your feedback...
Lynn
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Hankey Pankey
Performance Mods and Project Quads
1
Jul 31, 2015 05:50 PM
Hankey Pankey
Technical and How-To Articles
0
Jul 29, 2015 10:57 PM
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)