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SunL 90cc - Fires then quits...

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Old 05-17-2012, 05:46 PM
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Default SunL 90cc - Fires then quits...

Greetings,

Our 90cc SunL fires, but quits right away. It's about 5 years old bought new.

Carb - Has been cleaned twice, yesterday and then today I actually let the parts sit in carb cleaner for a couple of hours. The openings appear clear to me. The unit fires the same from the first time the carb was cleaned to now.

Battery is bad on the unit so I am jumping the unit to start.

The unit has good spark and thumb compression seems adequate. Unit may looks as though it was running rich previously with the plug having some build up on it. The needle had the clip at the lowest slot so it was running at it's richest setting, which i moved up only one (today).

I do not have the tether kill attached (unplugged). This was done almost immediately upon receiving the unit (new) years ago.

I do not understand how the electronics work on this/these units running off of a stator and cdi. It is my understanding that if I have spark the CDI is ok. Does that mean the problem could possibly be the stator? If so, does the unit start/spark off the battery first somehow then the stator operates from then on? I have had batteries go out previously and the unit still would run.

Not sure what to look for next or if I am missing something...

Any insight and help would be much appreciated!
 
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by squatrrs
Greetings,

Our 90cc SunL fires, but quits right away. It's about 5 years old bought new.

Carb - Has been cleaned twice, yesterday and then today I actually let the parts sit in carb cleaner for a couple of hours. The openings appear clear to me. The unit fires the same from the first time the carb was cleaned to now.

Battery is bad on the unit so I am jumping the unit to start.

The unit has good spark and thumb compression seems adequate. Unit may looks as though it was running rich previously with the plug having some build up on it. The needle had the clip at the lowest slot so it was running at it's richest setting, which i moved up only one (today).

I do not have the tether kill attached (unplugged). This was done almost immediately upon receiving the unit (new) years ago.

I do not understand how the electronics work on this/these units running off of a stator and cdi. It is my understanding that if I have spark the CDI is ok. Does that mean the problem could possibly be the stator? If so, does the unit start/spark off the battery first somehow then the stator operates from then on? I have had batteries go out previously and the unit still would run.

Not sure what to look for next or if I am missing something...

Any insight and help would be much appreciated!
If you have spark then almost certainly your CDI and the ignition part of your stator (not the battery charging part) is working. There are some rare and obscure problems such as the CDI firing randomly on its own, or and intermittent problem where the CDI dies after it is powered for a few seconds and overheats something. But these are very rare, and I would look elsewhere first.
 
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Old 05-18-2012, 06:32 AM
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so you've verified it is getting fuel by way of a float bowl full of gasoline and a wet spark plug. does the quad vibrate? as in the handlebars? i've had a small quad that had a loose connection on the left hand kill switch and would activate intermittently after it fired up. have you tried the ether trick? give it a small conservative squirt, crank it, once it fires up, one more small shot to see if it stays running? now that trick would be indicative of a fuel delivery issue. but it sounds like a loose connection on a kill wire.
 
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Old 05-18-2012, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by LynnEdwards
If you have spark then almost certainly your CDI and the ignition part of your stator (not the battery charging part) is working. There are some rare and obscure problems such as the CDI firing randomly on its own, or and intermittent problem where the CDI dies after it is powered for a few seconds and overheats something. But these are very rare, and I would look elsewhere first.
out of the many quads i've had, i've only had one that had an overheating voltage regulator/CDI that would eventually kill the quad but would not allow a restart for at least an hour.
 
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Old 05-18-2012, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Jaster94
out of the many quads i've had, i've only had one that had an overheating voltage regulator/CDI that would eventually kill the quad but would not allow a restart for at least an hour.
Ok after thinking about what you said I have checked the machine first looking at the kill switch (handle bars) and that looked good. Next I looked at the remote "box" mounted on the machine. This is where my problem is. This box has a small connector (2-wire) and a large connector.

First: Disconnected small connector and same issue.
Second: With both small and large connector disconnected the machine fired up and ran, of course I had no way of shutting down without stopping fuel flow, or plugging the connector in immediately shuts the machine down.
Third: With large connector disconnected and small one connected the same scenario as the second trial.

EDIT: Note that the CDI on this unit is a 5 pin in case this adds to our discussion. All electronics are factory original. I edited based on this thread http://forums.atvconnection.com/chin...h-removal.html and have not yet tried a jumper wire as described there.

Thanks a bunch guys!
 
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Old 05-18-2012, 10:41 AM
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That is a very strange problem. I glad you were able to find it. Following is some more generic info on remote module wiring and operation. MotorPartsMax.com had the best available pictures so I used their pictures as a reference.

You'll need to restore the connection marked "cut" to restore the ability for the ignition switch to shut off the quad. If you follow the wires you can see that this connection can be restored by jumpering across two pins at the remote module connector.

Here is a diagram showing how the generic remote module is wired up for 110cc (and many other) chinese quads using the 5 pin AC powered CDI.

Some history: This style remote module design has been around for decades. It was used originally on motorcycles and has since been cross applied to these small chinese quads. The diagram above shows the complete set of remote start/kill/alarm module functions as it was orignally designed. They provided not only the ability to kill the engine remotely, but also allowed remote starting of the quad regardless of whether the ignition switch was on or off. And there was an alarm that drove a siren and flashed the turn signal indicators.
As these modules became more and more targeted to quads they started to drop features that aren't really all that applicable. These small quads don't have turn signals, so that feature was the first to go. The alarm is annoying, and if you think about it, the ability to remotely start up a quad even when the ignition switch is off is kind of scary. So these feature are often left out too. As these features got dropped the remote modules still used the same 9 pin wiring harness connector, but they just left the wires for the unused features off.
Here is a couple pictures for a simple remote kill switch module:


Note how it only uses 4 pins on the standard connector and three wires into the module. The other pins are empty. For your quad without a remote connector you would have to wire the module directly into the wiring harness, but that would require only three wires, so it would be fairly straightforward to do.
That fourth wire from the module that does not go to the connector is the receive antenna. It just dangles.
Here is a couple pictures for a more complex module:


Note that all the pins on the standard connector are wired up, so it supports all the functions - even flashing the turn signals when the alarm goes off - but since a typical chinese kid quad doesn't have turn signals there would just be no wire connections on the harness side of the connector. Once again this function is unused.
If you don't have a remote module connector in your wiring harness you'll have to manually wire the remote module into your harness using the above diagram. Note that to allow the remote to start up the quad with the ignition switch off you will have to cut the kill switch wire at the ignition switch and wire separate wires from the module to each side of the cut wire.
If the remote kill function is all you want then the first option is the easiest since it is only three wires to hook up: Fused 12 volt power, ground, and the kill switch connection.
One final consideration on remote modules. They are powered up all the time and drawing current from the battery. From what I've read, some draw a fair amount of current and can draw down your battery in just a few weeks. Others are maybe not so bad. Thus when you store your quad for more than a few days it is imperative that you keep your battery on a maintenance charger (which you should be doing anyway) to keep your battery from from being damaged by sitting around partially discharged.
 
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:23 PM
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Jumping at the connector worked and I am now able to shut it off with the handle bar kill switch.

Not sure where the problem lies. Inside the remote control box I assume there is a short somewhere, but now it runs.

Thank you both very much for your help!
 
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