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8ball3290 09-15-2012 03:37 PM

07 panther 110cc wiring woe's
 
I picked up this Atv used for my son. The headlight stopped working followed by the brake light. Figuring I was a bulb for the front issue, and the brake was smashed I thought if I no a new one I would work again.

Also the handle bar kill switch doesn't shu down the Atv. I picked up a new switch assembly thinking this would solve the problem but nope, kill switch still not working.

Now if I have the engine running, hit the kill switch it still runs, however if I flip the headlight switch it kills the engine. If kill switch is on run and I hit headlight switch lights don't work still and engine continues to run.

The original harness is a mess, but looks like everything is connected, but I'm clueless when it comes to this kind of stuff.

Any suggestions in laymans terms please, or which harness to get if I go the new route. Thanks

LynnEdwards 09-15-2012 09:23 PM

Does this quad have a remote control module?

Is the handlebar kill switch a multiswitch assembly that has the start button, kill switch, and headlight switch(es) all in one unit?

Where did you get the new switch? If it was from a websitw can you post the link?

Before when the lights worked and the quad ran, did the handlebar kill switch work then?

8ball3290 09-15-2012 09:41 PM

Yes I has the remote control, which doesn't work or the battery is dead in the remote, as I haven't tried.

Yes it's a multinswitch assembly, lights, starter and kill switch

Think the site was motosports. Com or so will have to check on that.

No the switch didn't run when he lights worked

LynnEdwards 09-15-2012 10:26 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Here is a wiring diagram from www.HighRPMRacer.com that shows a wiring diagram for a remote equipped 110cc panther.

Attachment 6597

Click or hover over the thumbnail to get a bigger picture. Unfortunately all the component labels are in chinese. And it is only somewhat readable. Look it over and see if the wire colors match up on some of the major components. The remote module is in the lower right corner, the headlight switch is in the top row, third from the left. What this will do is see if this diagram has even a chance of depicting your actual wiring.

Is your headlight connector a single connector?

What are all the wire colors feeding your headlight switch? Important: Give me *only* the wire colors on the "wiring harness" side of any connector near the headlight switch. I don't care at all about the color of the short pigtail wires from the switch itself.

Also, what are the colors of the wires going to the CDI?

8ball3290 09-18-2012 10:15 AM

Lynn, sorry been remodeling the basement, will bet pics and answer them questions later today thanks for everything.

8ball3290 09-18-2012 01:19 PM

5 Attachment(s)
the head light has one connecter, i will add pics to hopefully answer your other questions, if you need more let me know please thanks a bunch. the first and last are of the cdi harness, the cdi box and the left side switch harness

Attachment 15575

Attachment 15576
Attachment 15577

Attachment 15578

Attachment 15579

LynnEdwards 09-19-2012 12:42 AM

Great on the CDI wiring pic's. That part is clear.

Not so great on the left handlebar switch. I need the wiring colors on the *wiring harness* side of connector set that attaches the switch to the harness. You photographed the switch side. There is no data in that information.

Follow me here... I need to know how you quad is wired, and I don't have reliable info to know how that is. So I have to rely on two premises (and your accurate reporting of course):

1) Any wire that enters the taped up wiring harness will come back out somewhere. That's obvious, right? But I also assume that whatever color that wire is as it enters the taped up wiring harness will still be the same color when it comes back out. If it is pink with green polkadots going in then wherever it comes back out of the harness it will still be pink with green polkadots. In practice that is a very good assumption because a company would have to go to a lot of extra effort to make it come out otherwise.

2) Wires that are the same color in your main wiring harness are all connected together. For example, your kill switch connection at the CDI wiring harness connector is black with a white stripe. I'm going to propose that all black wires with a white stripe are the same wire connection, and are (or should be) connected together. This is easily verified with a meter set to measure continuity (or ohms). Again this is a good assumption. The manufacturers have to test and troubleshoot these systems. Having multiple colors each indicating a single function helps that process. If this weren't true they would save money by buying only one wire color and making the entire harness out of white wires, for example.

But wire colors often change when mating to OEM purchased parts that have short pigtail leads. The pigtail leads could be any color. That's what you showed. This does not help me.

There is a black/white wire at your CDI that ties to the kill switch input of the CDI. That wire goes to the kill switch pin on your handlebar switch. Yet I don't see that color on the switch pigtails. See? I don't have the info I need...

It is also not clear how many wires go to your handlebar switch. How many wires? It's a single connector so far, but I don't see the connector in your pic's.

While we're catching up on wire colors in the harness at the handlebar switch, perhaps we can jump one step ahead.... ;)

A) What are the wire colors at one of your headlights? Again report only wire colors on the *harness* side if you headlight connector has short pigtail wires...

B) What are the wire colors of the two small wires feeding your starter solonoid (on the wiring harness side.....)?

8ball3290 09-19-2012 02:53 AM

Gotcha will take a look in the morning, like I said I'm clueless at this electrical stuff. The good thing if you can call it a good thing is the harness is not taped up, all the wires are pretty much hanging loose and easy to follow.

8ball3290 09-19-2012 12:52 PM

4 Attachment(s)
there are two connectors that go to the handlebar switch. heres pics of harness side.

Attachment 15571

Attachment 15572

heres a pic of the headlight connector, harness side
Attachment 15573

a pic of the mess i'm working with
Attachment 15574
i'm not even sure where to look for the starter wires, do they plug into the thing that the spark plug wire goes to?

LynnEdwards 09-20-2012 01:02 AM

Looking at your CDI connector I see that ground is a black wire and the kill switch wire is black/white. At the headlight switch I see a black and black/white wire. Use your meter to check for continuity between the black wire on the CDI connector to the black wire on the headlight connector (we're just making sure...). Then do the same process for the black/white wire at the CDI connector to the black/white wire at the headlight connector. So far these are just sanity checks. Those wires should be connected.

Your headlight connector has four wires, yet a headlight with high beam cannot have more than three (low, high, and ground). Hmmm. Two of those are yellow (or is it orange?). I wonder if they get connected together at the headlight pigtail connector. I'm thinking...

Yellow is a common color for AC powered headlights. I suspect you might fall into this category. I think you should ignore this for now and concentrate on why the kill switch isn't working. On your headlight switch find which wires connect to the black and black white wire from the harness. Then use you meter to check continuity looking into the switch pins to see if they get shorted together when the kill switch is set to "kill" mode, and are open when it is set to "run" mode.

Where did you get the replacement switch? Did you find that out yet?

On the two pin connector to your headlight switch: Where do those wires go? You can follow the wires directly (since your harness is mostly unwrapped), or you can look at all your connectors and find the same color wires elsewhere and see what they connect to.

Re: The starter solenoid wires: No, the thing that your spark plug connects to is your ignition coil. Follow the big fat red wire from your positive battery post. It goes directly to the starter solenoid. You'll see another big fat wire go down to the starter motor. Look again at the starter solenoid and you will also see two more small wires going to it. Follow those wires back to the wiring harness connector, and report back the wire colors on the wiring harness side of this connector set. It is also possible that the wiring harness plugs directly into the solenoid (less common), but in any case I want the wiring harness side colors.

8ball3290 09-20-2012 11:25 AM

the starter solenoid wires harness side are red/yellow and black.

dont have a meter that works but will pick one up today

yes the two oranges wires are spliced together before they go into the switch harness

the two pin connector from the head light switch wires are red/yellow and green/yellow. the red/yellow is spliced one end going to the starter solenoid, the other to a harness that plugs into a black box under the seat.
the green/yellow is also spliced, one end connects to the brake switch wires, and the other runs to the rear brake light harness end.

got the switch harness from motopartsmax.com it is not on the atv currently.

8ball3290 09-21-2012 01:59 AM

Well picked up the meter, there was no continuity from the black Cdi wire to the other end of the harness. I reconnected all the black wire back together as a few were loose, and now the meter is reading. I also checked the wires to in the kill switch harness and they are readin also, as is the headlight switch. Tossed it on the battery charger and will start up tomorrow and see what happens

8ball3290 09-21-2012 02:55 PM

Is it possible the previous owner could have pulled out wires and placed them back wron in the connector?

I'm going wire by wire checking continuity and a gray wire on the kill switch run to the main harness then turns into black wire that feeds into the headlight harness to both headlight bulbs.

Then I have a black wire on the light switch that runs to the main harness and turns into yellow wire which is spliced one side going into stator the other to the Cdi box? Could these be switched at the switch side of the harness?

8ball3290 09-21-2012 03:52 PM

So it seems those wires were possibly switched as I have the kill switch working now. Still no headlights yet, need to figure out which wires do what on the harness and which ones do what on the light switch

LynnEdwards 09-22-2012 12:59 AM

1 Attachment(s)
My comments in blue:

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8ball3290 (Post 3138497)
the starter solenoid wires harness side are red/yellow and black.

[Black is ground, and the red/yel should go to the start button (on the left hadlebar switch) and to the remote control module]

dont have a meter that works but will pick one up today

yes the two oranges wires are spliced together before they go into the switch harness

the two pin connector from the head light switch wires are red/yellow [yes this is right] and green/yellow. the red/yellow is spliced one end going to the starter solenoid, the other to a harness that plugs into a black box under the seat [the remote control module].
the green/yellow is also spliced, one end connects to the brake switch wires, and the other runs to the rear brake light harness end. [this sounds right too.]

got the switch harness from motopartsmax.com it is not on the atv currently.

Here is the typical remote control wiring: The colors vary, but the scheme is pretty universal:

Attachment 15568

The remote is drawn "fully functioned", with all of the possible features drawn in. Many (maybe most) quads have only a subset of features in the remote, so many of the wires in the 9 pin remote connector may be missing (such as alarm, flashing turn signals, etc.).

LynnEdwards 09-22-2012 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8ball3290 (Post 3138727)
So it seems those wires were possibly switched as I have the kill switch working now. Still no headlights yet, need to figure out which wires do what on the harness and which ones do what on the light switch

You've made big progress. I'm assuming now that the kill switch and start button on your left handlebar switch is working.

Now for the headlights. The first thing to figure out is whether your lights are AC powered or DC powered. DC powered lights are powered from the battery, and work with the engine stopped and the ignition switch (and headlight switch) turned on. AC powered lights work only when the engine is running (and headlight switch turned on) since the power is coming straight off the stator. In addition, AC powered lights tend to dim a lot at idle, then brighten up as you increase the engine speed.

All of the above may be totally moot at the moment because your lights don't work at all, but was there ever a time when you saw the quad with working lights? Do you recall if the lights were AC powered or DC powered based on the above difference in operation? You may have already stated this. If so I apologize. Rereading the posts tonight make my eyes glaze over. It's been a really busy work week for me....:cool:

There is a yellow wire at your headlight connector (wiring harness side of course). If you look at your stator wires coming of of the engine side cover, and follow then over to the wiring harness side of the connector(s), do you see a yellow wire? If so, measure the continuity (zero ohms resistance) from that yellow wire at the stator to the yellow wire on the handlebar switch connector. Are they same wire? I so then your lights are AC powered.

8ball3290 09-23-2012 12:16 PM

there is a yellow wire from the stator, it is spliced, half goes to cdi box, the other the the left side harness. it was connected to a black wire that ran to the headlight switch. there is a gray wire on the kill switch that ran to a black wire on the harness that feeds the lights. what i did was switch the yellow and black on the harness side and the kill switch now works. it didnt make sense to me that a wire from the kill switch would run to the headlights... is that wrong?

there is a yellow wire on the kill switch, it runs to the harness, turns black/white and is spliced 3 ways 1. cdi 2. remote box, 3. rear kill cord.

i will explain what wires are on the light switch what they turn into and where they go, maybe it will help.

on the light switch the wires are like this brown/white green
red black
when looking at the switch.

br/w feeds into an empty slot on the main harness

green feeds into a blue which go to headlight harness, turns brown and goes into the
headlight

red feeds into harness turns orange, orange is spliced and feeds into headlight
1. changes into green/yellow and goes to the main bulb
2. orange and runs to small yellow bulb off to the side of main bulb

black stays black at harness and runs to headlight harness when it goes to green and runs to the headlight bulb.

i'm getting continuity between all the above connections, so i dont know what the heck is going on. even when the atv is running there is no lights.

LynnEdwards 09-23-2012 11:29 PM

My comments in blue:

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8ball3290 (Post 3138942)
there is a yellow wire from the stator, it is spliced, half goes to cdi box, the other the the left side harness. it was connected to a black wire that ran to the headlight switch. there is a gray wire on the kill switch that ran to a black wire on the harness that feeds the lights. what i did was switch the yellow and black on the harness side and the kill switch now works. it didnt make sense to me that a wire from the kill switch would run to the headlights... is that wrong? [Yes, the kill switch has no business running to the headlight switch, and the yellow wire from the stator has no business running to the CDI. But I have to wonder where your reversed these wires, and whether you did it wrong - substituting one wiring error for another.]

there is a yellow wire on the kill switch, it runs to the harness, turns black/white and is spliced 3 ways 1. cdi 2. remote box, 3. rear kill cord. [This sound correct.]

i will explain what wires are on the light switch what they turn into and where they go, maybe it will help.

on the light switch the wires are like this brown/white, green,
red, and black when looking at the switch.

br/w feeds into an empty slot on the main harness [I think this is the power input that feeds the headlights through the headlight switch. More on the at the end of this post...]

green feeds into a blue which go to headlight harness, turns brown and goes into the headlight [I think this is the wire that feeds the high beam headlight side]

red feeds into harness turns orange, orange is spliced and feeds into headlight
1. changes into green/yellow and goes to the main bulb
2. orange and runs to small yellow bulb off to the side of main bulb
[I think this is the low beam headlight side (and running lights).]

black stays black at harness and runs to headlight harness when it goes to green and runs to the headlight bulb. [I think this is just ground. Use your meter and measure continuity to engine/frame ground, and to the negative battery terminal. Do you measure continuity to ground? If so I would bet that all your main wiring harenss black wires are ground.]

i'm getting continuity between all the above connections, so i dont know what the heck is going on. even when the atv is running there is no lights.

In all of the above wire routing you didn't mention where the yellow wire from the stator goes now that you have changed it. Where does this wire go? If I'm right in my suspicions, I think it should go to the headlight switch, and the voltage regulator, and no where else.

If I'm right, your lights are AC powered directly off the stator (via the yellow wire). And I suspect that this yell wire should go to the Brn/wht wire on the headlight switch. Let's verify this:

1) Unplug the headlight switch. Use your meter to measure continuity between the following wires looking into the headlight switch (and using the colors on the switch itself):

2) Headlight switch off, verify that there is no continuity between the brn/wht and any other wire (grn, red, blk)

3) Turn on the headlights, and verify that there is continuity between the brn/wht and the red wire, and no continuity between brn/wht and grn and/or blk wires.

4) Turn on the bright headlights and verify continuity between the brn/wht wire and:
a) Grn wire
b) Red wire
and no continuity to the blk wire

A different subject: You reversed two wires Yellow and Gray (or black) and the kill switch started working. I've already asked you you tell me where the yellow wire from the stator goes now that you rerouted it. After thinking about it, I'm not sure the kill switch was rerouted correctly either. It is possible that the kill switch now gets switched to ground (via the kill switch) through the headlight bulb filament (or something equally bizarre). That will work until the headlight wiring gets fixed, and then the kill switch issues will rear it's head again. So please follow the gray kill switch wire that you rerouted, and tell me exactly where it goes...

We'll get to the bottom of this...;)

8ball3290 09-24-2012 02:05 PM

The yellow wire runs from the stator and gets split. It didn't go to the Cdi box that as an error on my part, looks like it goes to some type of regulator or something, the other half ran to the left side harness switch. It connected to a black wire on the light switch.

What I did was switch the yellow from that black to the gray wire on the kill switch and that made the kill switch work. But from what you are sayin that is wrong. So I switched them back and now the kill switch wont work unless I turn the headlights on again.

I checked continuity with the headlight switch , with switch off I am getting continuity between the br/w and red.

Switch on continuity between br/w and red and br/w and black

Brights on. Continuity between br/w and green
No continuity between br/w and red
Continuity between br/w and black
That gray wire on the kill switch, could that be a ground wire as it runs to the head light harness turns black then green and looks like it is grounded at the top of the bulb connector

I put the yellow and black wires where they were originally and the kill switch is back to not working correctly.

At one poin when I flipped the kill switch wih the headlights on they turned of for a quick second then he engine died.

LynnEdwards 09-25-2012 01:14 AM

I started to reply to this tonight, but as I was composing the post, my ideas that felt so promising earlier fell apart as I was writing. The puzzle pieces don't fit together yet. I need to think a little more on this.

I will respond within a day or so. I'll most likely have some more questions... ;)

8ball3290 09-26-2012 09:07 AM

kill switch is working now, the gray wire on it is grounded out to the headlight and the yellow feeds into the black white wire.
so now these headlights

maybe this can help me get the headlights going... on the switch there are 4 wires going to it. any idea what controls what?

if looking at the inside of the switch it like this -

* *
* *

br/w gr

red blk

I am gonna assume the blk is the ground, as that feeds down to the back of the headlight and screws into the bulb housing.

now this br/w wire runs to an empty slot on the main harness, should this be connected to that yellow wire from the stator?

then how can i figure out which color (red/green) controls the lights/brights.

if i can figure that out, I think i can connect the correct wire in the main harness to the head light fitting.

i just reconnected a couple wires that were spliced, gonna see if thats gonna help at all, unfortunately the battery died out, recharging it up now...:(

LynnEdwards 09-26-2012 12:08 PM

Once again I started to respond last night but fell asleep at the keyboard.

I reread the posts. I want to revisit what I see so far and see if you agree. Let's start with the headlight switch looking at the harness connections and wire colors. I'll post the harness colors and what I think their functions are (remember these are harness side wire colors):

Connector 1:
Yellow: AC power from the stator to run your headlights
Orange: AC power when switched on to run your low beams and running lights.
Blue: AC power to run your high beams
Black/White: Kill switch connection. When grounded to the black wire via the kill switch this kills spark and stops the engine.
Black: Ground. This should go all over the place to frame ground and to the negative battery terminal.

Connector 2:
Red/Yellow: Start button to the starter solenoid
Green/Yellow: Start button to the starter/brake light safety interlock circuitry.

That's seven wire in your harness that all have to be wired up correctly for your quad to start, run, and have low and high beam headlights

Connector 2 is working. Your quad cranks the starter, so we can ignore it.

That leave the 5 wires on connector 1. I only have partial info on how these five wires in the harness interface to your left handlebar switch.

Here's what I think so far starting with the headlight switch:

1) The yellow wire from the stator goes to the black wire on the headlight switch. This is from your post of 9/23:

Quote:

The yellow wire runs from the stator and gets split. It didn't go to the Cdi box that as an error on my part, looks like it goes to some type of regulator or something, the other half ran to the left side harness switch. It connected to a black wire on the light switch.
But then on a post on 9/23 you wrote:

Quote:

black stays black at harness and runs to headlight harness when it goes to green and runs to the headlight bulb.
There is a confilct here. Do you have two different black wires on the headlight switch?

2) The red wire on the headlight switch goes to the low beam side of the headlights.

3) the Green wire on the headlight switch goes to the high beam headlight connection.

From your description of the switch continuity when the headlight switch is off, low beams and high beams I would say the the red and green wires sound right, and that the yellow wire from the stator should go to the black wire on the headlight switch.

The other description where your black wire on the headlight switch goes to the ground wire at the headlight connector does not sound correct.

Now I'm out of info to work with. There are two more wires in the harness connector: The black/white (kill switch) wire and the black wire (ground). I assum the kill switch wire (blk/wht) ties to the gray wire on the handlebar switch. Right? But where does the ground wire go (the black wire on the 5 pin harness connector) on the headlight switch? I know you said it goes to the black wire on the headlight switch, but you also said the yellow wire goes to the black wire on the headlight switch. Both can't be true. :huh:

Also, check the continuity of the black wire in the 5 pin wiring harness connector to ground (or the negative battery terminal). Maybe this is your major problem - that black wire in the harness connector doesn't go to ground. That would keep your kill switch from working.

Based on your headlight switch continuity readings I think the brn/wht wire on the headlight switch should remian unused.

8ball3290 09-26-2012 02:32 PM

Okay, got it fixed. What happened was the black ground wire from the switch spliced and not connected to the main grounds. When I saw these unconnected I assumed they had got sliced and just connected both ends ( from switch and from headlight ) together.

I just wired them up to he other grounds and lo and behold, we got lights.

Thanks for all your patience and help. Now I just got to figure out the tail light.
Will post those wife colors shortly. I had an led light which stopped working, I figured cuz it was damaged that caused the failure so I bought a new assembly and not sure which wire to connect to what cuz the colors are different

8ball3290 09-26-2012 02:53 PM

The original brake harness was a two pin with 3 wires runnin to it. Black by itself, and green and red together.

The new brake light assembly was a 3 pin, so I cut that end off to splice into the old 2 pin but don't know which wires to splice ti what wires.

The new assembly wires are green yellow and brown, and the old ones are black , green and red.

8ball3290 09-26-2012 03:12 PM

Ok so I got brake lights now, but not running lights, should the brake light turn off completely when lever is released or should it dim out as a running lamp?

I don't remember what it did before it stopped working.

My other son Atv does dim out as running lights

LynnEdwards 09-27-2012 01:55 AM

Awesome. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8ball3290 (Post 3139535)
Okay, got it fixed. What happened was the black ground wire from the switch spliced and not connected to the main grounds. When I saw these unconnected I assumed they had got sliced and just connected both ends ( from switch and from headlight ) together.

I just wired them up to he other grounds and lo and behold, we got lights.

Thanks for all your patience and help. Now I just got to figure out the tail light.
Will post those wife colors shortly. I had an led light which stopped working, I figured cuz it was damaged that caused the failure so I bought a new assembly and not sure which wire to connect to what cuz the colors are different


LynnEdwards 09-27-2012 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8ball3290 (Post 3139535)
...Will post those wife colors shortly. I had an led light which stopped working, I figured cuz it was damaged that caused the failure so I bought a new assembly and not sure which wire to connect to what cuz the colors are different

Uh oh, this is a big problem. LED lights are DC powered only, and your main lighting system (headlights and tail light) are powered of AC voltage from the stator. You cannot power an LED tail light off AC power from the stator. It will not work - end of story.

But you have a brake light. The brake light filament (inside the brake/tail light bulb) is completely separate from the tail light filament. They share a common ground, but they are other wise completely separate. On AC powered lighted quads the tail light filament is powered from the AC voltage from the stator (through the headlight switch). The brake light filament is powered on 12 volts DC through the brake switch.

You have brake lights, but not rear running lights. With an LED rear light I would expect this to be so - DC powered stuff only will work- i.e. brake light. Ac powered stuff will not. We're stuck here on that fact...

Obviously your quad didn't come this way, since it is so impossible, but what of the future? Do you want to go back to incandescants all around (i.e.tail light), or switch to having LED headlights with the entire lighting network running of DC power from the regulator, or just living with the things the way they are?

8ball3290 09-27-2012 03:48 PM

It had an led light when I got it, so I grabbed another cuz that's what it had. It works so guess I'll just leave it as is it. Thanks again for all your help, now just have ti switch out the plastics, it's yellow the kid wants camo like his big brother, Christmas present I guess, lol


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