kazuma Jaguar 500
#11
10-14-2012, 11:11 AM
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My comments in blue...
Hi Lynn, Got the Quad to my own workshop and can now see it with more time.
Traced a lot of the ignition and starter system wiring and will make a coloured drawing and post it , so other members can see it for future ref on Chinese 500cc models.. In the meantime I also recieved the spare CDI and rectifier unit. So I now have a spare rectifier,CDI box and Ignition coil. (but no spark)
CDI. While tracing the CDI cabling I saw one pair of wires coming from the pick up magnetic sensor direct to this unit, one pair going out to the Ignition coil , one wire going to the switch on the handle bar. One last cable is unknown and am still trying to trace it. [You've got trigger, output to the ignition coil, and probably a kill switch connection to the left handlebar. Power is the missing item.]
I opened the side Cover to have access to the magnetic pickup and saw some white power type deposit built up on the casing. While the Pickup itself seemed clean the guts inside this box were full of moisture and the powder seemed more like the buildup you see on batt terminals.
CABLING from Ng pickup and charging system. There are a total of 6 cables coming of the one loom of this section. . 2 from the pickup sensor which go to the CDI unit, 3 in yellow go to the rectifier and one last yellow connects to a green into the main wiring loom (could be earth) .
Since I got no spark even after trying out the new CDI and rectifier I wanted to verify the following..
a) test process for a magnetic pickup. Is there any test method for the pickup sensor. (Say checking voltage or resistance with a multimeter while cranking the engine to see any variation in any value???) [Yes, unplug the CDI measure the resistance of the pickup coil looking into the wire harness at the CDI connector. You should see something like 150 ohms. This measure both the coil and the wiring harness to the pickup coil. Also, set your meter to measure AC volts on the lowest scale you have and crank the engine. You should see some voltage here on the order of 0.3 volts while the starter is cranking, and 0.0 when the starter isn't cranking. The voltage waveform here is actually very short plus and minus pulses followed by lots of zero voltage inbetween - hence the voltage you measure is averaged over time. That explains the small voltage you measure, but you should measure something.]
b) Any specific method to remove the flywheel as could not get it off to access the coils inside. [Most flywheels are pressed onto a taper. My GY6 engine flywheel needs a puller ($18) to remove the flywheel. I don't know about yours.]
c) Is the function of the rectifier only to control voltage for headlamp or does it have any function that may inhibit the performance of the CDI. [I'm pretty sure your CDI is going to be DC powered since you didn't describe any wires coming out of the stator that could be AC power. As long as your battery can crank the starter you've got more than suffiicient power to run the CDI. The purpose of the voltage regulator and the battery charge winding in the stator is to keep the battery charged up. If you remove the regulator the quad will run fine until the battery goes dead.]
Going to basics I can only forsee the mag pickup as the missing link but unsure where to start as to checking it??
[Kill switch issues and bad wiring are the other issues. Let's get your wiring diagram posted in your album, or through a picture hosting site - then let's see if we can come up with a test regime.
]
Traced a lot of the ignition and starter system wiring and will make a coloured drawing and post it , so other members can see it for future ref on Chinese 500cc models.. In the meantime I also recieved the spare CDI and rectifier unit. So I now have a spare rectifier,CDI box and Ignition coil. (but no spark)
CDI. While tracing the CDI cabling I saw one pair of wires coming from the pick up magnetic sensor direct to this unit, one pair going out to the Ignition coil , one wire going to the switch on the handle bar. One last cable is unknown and am still trying to trace it. [You've got trigger, output to the ignition coil, and probably a kill switch connection to the left handlebar. Power is the missing item.]
I opened the side Cover to have access to the magnetic pickup and saw some white power type deposit built up on the casing. While the Pickup itself seemed clean the guts inside this box were full of moisture and the powder seemed more like the buildup you see on batt terminals.
CABLING from Ng pickup and charging system. There are a total of 6 cables coming of the one loom of this section. . 2 from the pickup sensor which go to the CDI unit, 3 in yellow go to the rectifier and one last yellow connects to a green into the main wiring loom (could be earth) .
Since I got no spark even after trying out the new CDI and rectifier I wanted to verify the following..
a) test process for a magnetic pickup. Is there any test method for the pickup sensor. (Say checking voltage or resistance with a multimeter while cranking the engine to see any variation in any value???) [Yes, unplug the CDI measure the resistance of the pickup coil looking into the wire harness at the CDI connector. You should see something like 150 ohms. This measure both the coil and the wiring harness to the pickup coil. Also, set your meter to measure AC volts on the lowest scale you have and crank the engine. You should see some voltage here on the order of 0.3 volts while the starter is cranking, and 0.0 when the starter isn't cranking. The voltage waveform here is actually very short plus and minus pulses followed by lots of zero voltage inbetween - hence the voltage you measure is averaged over time. That explains the small voltage you measure, but you should measure something.]
b) Any specific method to remove the flywheel as could not get it off to access the coils inside. [Most flywheels are pressed onto a taper. My GY6 engine flywheel needs a puller ($18) to remove the flywheel. I don't know about yours.]
c) Is the function of the rectifier only to control voltage for headlamp or does it have any function that may inhibit the performance of the CDI. [I'm pretty sure your CDI is going to be DC powered since you didn't describe any wires coming out of the stator that could be AC power. As long as your battery can crank the starter you've got more than suffiicient power to run the CDI. The purpose of the voltage regulator and the battery charge winding in the stator is to keep the battery charged up. If you remove the regulator the quad will run fine until the battery goes dead.]
Going to basics I can only forsee the mag pickup as the missing link but unsure where to start as to checking it??
[Kill switch issues and bad wiring are the other issues. Let's get your wiring diagram posted in your album, or through a picture hosting site - then let's see if we can come up with a test regime.
]
#12
10-14-2012, 05:47 PM
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Ok just uploaded the circuits on my album.
I have separated them into 3 pages for clarity.
Page 1 is just ignition system.
Page 2 is the 4WD electrics
Page 4 is the rest of the bike like lights, radiator fan.
Seems to have 2 types of grounding circuits , One in black coming from the rectifier and one in green from the battery.
Also looks like the rad fan has a flawed circuit as it does not show a positive from anywhere. Will leave that for later once the bike starts...(Just has a earth to the temp switch on the engine which gives its second wire to a relay that in turn sends a connection to a red wire to the radiator. The other radiator green wire is grounded. Wonder if the radiator every ran when the bike was used in the past. ??)
For now would just like to know a systematic test procedure based on this circuit. I have a spare CDI , Rectifier and Ign Coil. SO we are now left with a magnetic pickup as the only missing link.
I have separated them into 3 pages for clarity.
Page 1 is just ignition system.
Page 2 is the 4WD electrics
Page 4 is the rest of the bike like lights, radiator fan.
Seems to have 2 types of grounding circuits , One in black coming from the rectifier and one in green from the battery.
Also looks like the rad fan has a flawed circuit as it does not show a positive from anywhere. Will leave that for later once the bike starts...(Just has a earth to the temp switch on the engine which gives its second wire to a relay that in turn sends a connection to a red wire to the radiator. The other radiator green wire is grounded. Wonder if the radiator every ran when the bike was used in the past. ??)
For now would just like to know a systematic test procedure based on this circuit. I have a spare CDI , Rectifier and Ign Coil. SO we are now left with a magnetic pickup as the only missing link.
#13
10-14-2012, 09:25 PM
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My comments in blue once again:
I see something else that looks wrong. On your brake switch wiring you show the brake switch tying the brake light to ground when the brakes are applied. This is not consistent with the majority of quads, where the brake switch applies switched, fused, 12 volts to the brake light, and also is commonly used in a starter interlock circuit where the starter won't turn unless the brakes are applied. But uh oh, once again, the "ground" side of the brake switch goes to the black wire terminal block. Again, I think this would make a lot more sense if the black terminal block is supposed to be switched 12 volts DC. It reinforces my thought that we need to find out why your black terminal block doesn't get 12 volts DC when you turn on the ignition.
And three more questions:
1) Why did you think the black terminal block is ground? Is it really ground if you ohm it out? Maybe we need to find a short.
2) Where is your main battery fuse (*always* located real close to the the positive battery terminal)? Is this fuse good? Is it mechanically located in the starter Solenoid?
3) Are you going through the standard sequence when starting quad? I.E. Ignition on, kill switches off, apply brakes, push start button? If you don't apply the brakes does the starter turn? Are you doing anything non-stock or non-standard to get the starter motor to crank? You see, the above data also suggests that wthout 12 volts on the black terminal block you shouldn't be able to crank your starter motor either. I'm looking for posiible explanations for that
.
We can go into testing the CDI functions should that be necessary, but right now I'm thinking your problem is much more fundamental (such as getting power onto the power bus).
Ok just uploaded the circuits on my album.
I have separated them into 3 pages for clarity.
Page 1 is just ignition system.
Page 2 is the 4WD electrics
Page 4 is the rest of the bike like lights, radiator fan.
Seems to have 2 types of grounding circuits , One in black coming from the rectifier and one in green from the battery. [Uh Oh, this sounds suspicious. I think that you're making an logical error here. Black is a *very common* color for switched 12 volt DC power from the battery. So the common scenario is that fused 12 volt DC from the positive battery terminal goes to the ignition switch. The switched 12 volts often exits the ignition switch as a black wire, and goes to a lot of stuff (so it might have a terminal block too...). You have a black wire leaving the ignition switch going to a terminal block. And you have a black wire from this black wire terminal block going to the CDI. There is no other power source going to your CDI in your wiring diagram. CDI's have to have power (12 volts DC in your case). What I'm trying to suggest is that the black terminal block and all those black wires associated with it probably should be 12 volts switched on by your ignition switch. But its not. MAybe we should concentrate there... Read on below some more.....]
Also looks like the rad fan has a flawed circuit as it does not show a positive from anywhere. Will leave that for later once the bike starts...[Well, your diagram shows a black wire from the black wire terminal block going to the fan. If I'm correct, and that black wire should be switched (and fused) 12 volts (and it is not), then this is just another manifestation of the *same* problem with you ingition system. CDI's don't work without power, and neither do fans. This is a striking coincidence don't you think?](Just has a earth to the temp switch on the engine which gives its second wire to a relay that in turn sends a connection to a red wire to the radiator. The other radiator green wire is grounded. Wonder if the radiator every ran when the bike was used in the past. ??)
[Let me ask a question: Your starter solenoid has too many wires on it, and I don't see a fuse coming off the battery. I'm wondering if the fuse off the battery is built into your starter solenoid. Do you have a fuse in your solenoid? I've never seen one of these, but I know they exist.]
For now would just like to know a systematic test procedure based on this circuit. I have a spare CDI , Rectifier and Ign Coil. SO we are now left with a magnetic pickup as the only missing link.
I have separated them into 3 pages for clarity.
Page 1 is just ignition system.
Page 2 is the 4WD electrics
Page 4 is the rest of the bike like lights, radiator fan.
Seems to have 2 types of grounding circuits , One in black coming from the rectifier and one in green from the battery. [Uh Oh, this sounds suspicious. I think that you're making an logical error here. Black is a *very common* color for switched 12 volt DC power from the battery. So the common scenario is that fused 12 volt DC from the positive battery terminal goes to the ignition switch. The switched 12 volts often exits the ignition switch as a black wire, and goes to a lot of stuff (so it might have a terminal block too...). You have a black wire leaving the ignition switch going to a terminal block. And you have a black wire from this black wire terminal block going to the CDI. There is no other power source going to your CDI in your wiring diagram. CDI's have to have power (12 volts DC in your case). What I'm trying to suggest is that the black terminal block and all those black wires associated with it probably should be 12 volts switched on by your ignition switch. But its not. MAybe we should concentrate there... Read on below some more.....]
Also looks like the rad fan has a flawed circuit as it does not show a positive from anywhere. Will leave that for later once the bike starts...[Well, your diagram shows a black wire from the black wire terminal block going to the fan. If I'm correct, and that black wire should be switched (and fused) 12 volts (and it is not), then this is just another manifestation of the *same* problem with you ingition system. CDI's don't work without power, and neither do fans. This is a striking coincidence don't you think?](Just has a earth to the temp switch on the engine which gives its second wire to a relay that in turn sends a connection to a red wire to the radiator. The other radiator green wire is grounded. Wonder if the radiator every ran when the bike was used in the past. ??)
[Let me ask a question: Your starter solenoid has too many wires on it, and I don't see a fuse coming off the battery. I'm wondering if the fuse off the battery is built into your starter solenoid. Do you have a fuse in your solenoid? I've never seen one of these, but I know they exist.]
For now would just like to know a systematic test procedure based on this circuit. I have a spare CDI , Rectifier and Ign Coil. SO we are now left with a magnetic pickup as the only missing link.
And three more questions:
1) Why did you think the black terminal block is ground? Is it really ground if you ohm it out? Maybe we need to find a short.
2) Where is your main battery fuse (*always* located real close to the the positive battery terminal)? Is this fuse good? Is it mechanically located in the starter Solenoid?
3) Are you going through the standard sequence when starting quad? I.E. Ignition on, kill switches off, apply brakes, push start button? If you don't apply the brakes does the starter turn? Are you doing anything non-stock or non-standard to get the starter motor to crank? You see, the above data also suggests that wthout 12 volts on the black terminal block you shouldn't be able to crank your starter motor either. I'm looking for posiible explanations for that
.We can go into testing the CDI functions should that be necessary, but right now I'm thinking your problem is much more fundamental (such as getting power onto the power bus).
#14
10-14-2012, 09:42 PM
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a) Starter solenoid does have a built in fuse. Checked and its OK. There is no other fuse EXCEPT one fuse for the 4wd loom.
b) Switched on ignition and shorted the 2 wires on the engine for the rad fan switch and it did turn on, so need to see how that worked.
c) I am not certain if black is earth or not but can recheck again. The black from the brake switch goes into a relay box of the winch and was inaccesible. Maybe I can test if 12 is actually 12v positive since the rad fan does work.
d) In terms of starting the quad . Brake switch does not work when brake pedal is pressed so for now we shorted the switch and the brake light always on along with the circuit to the starter solenoid being energised. Ign on, then kill sw off, push button starter on and the starter turns.
I'll check the black terminal for 112v and see the result since the fan does work when switch bypassed.
Nothing non standard on it
b) Switched on ignition and shorted the 2 wires on the engine for the rad fan switch and it did turn on, so need to see how that worked.
c) I am not certain if black is earth or not but can recheck again. The black from the brake switch goes into a relay box of the winch and was inaccesible. Maybe I can test if 12 is actually 12v positive since the rad fan does work.
d) In terms of starting the quad . Brake switch does not work when brake pedal is pressed so for now we shorted the switch and the brake light always on along with the circuit to the starter solenoid being energised. Ign on, then kill sw off, push button starter on and the starter turns.
I'll check the black terminal for 112v and see the result since the fan does work when switch bypassed.
Nothing non standard on it
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10-15-2012, 07:35 PM
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#17
10-16-2012, 12:37 AM
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Unplug your CDI connectors.
A) Power:
A1) Set your meter to measure DC volts on the 20 volt scale. Use your meter to look into the CDI connector. Black lead goes to ground (green) wire, and the red lead goes to the black (12 volt power) wire. Turn on the ignition (starter not turning) and measure the voltage on the black wire. What voltage do you measure?
B) Kill switch:
B1) Make sure all your kill switches are off. Set your meter to measure ohms on the lowest scale you have (like 2 or 20 ohms). Measure the resistance of the kill switch wire (black/white wire) to the ground wire (green). What resistance do you measure? And, repeat this measurement with a kill switch on. Use the left handlebar kill switch and/or the ignition switch in the off position. In fact do both. What rsistance do you measure with the left handlebar kill switchoff (ignition switch on), and what resistance do you measure with the ignition switch off (and the handlebar kill switch on)?
C) Trigger Signal:
C1) Set your meter to measure resistance in ohms on the 2K ohm scale. Measure the resistance between the two wire wires that go to the trigger pickup coil. Unfortunately I only see a purple wire here, the other wire color is hidden under the "back" button plopped in by the forum software. I suspect it is blue white, or something like that. What resistance do your measure?
C2) Set your meter to measure AC volts on the lowest scale possible. Measure the same wires as above. Make sure all your kill swiches are off. Crank the engine, and measure the AC volts between these two wires while cranking the engine with the starter motor. What do you measure? What scale did you use to do this?
E) Ignition coil output:
E1) Set your meter to measure resistance in ohms on lowest ohm scale possible. Measure the resistance of the CDI Output wire (Black/yellow) in the harness to the ground wire (green). What resistance do you measure? What scale did youuse on your meter?
E2) Now (finally) plug your CDI back in. Set your meter to measure AC volts on the 20 volt AC scale. Turn all kill switches to the run (kill switches off) position. Crank the starter motor, and measure the AC voltage between the Igition output wire Black/Yellow and frame ground (or the negative battery terminal). To get at the Black/Yellow wire you may need to probe the wire with a sewing pin if you can't get through the connector itself. Do this by poking through the plastic insulation to get att the copper wire core. Caution: This wire (in normal operation) has some fairly substantial voltages on it. Keep your fingers out of the circuit.
What voltage do you measure? Note, this part may not give a solid repeatable answer. It depends on your meter. Use as much verbal detail to describe what you find with your meter...
#18
10-16-2012, 02:39 AM
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A) Power:
A1) 12 v
B) Kill switch:
B1) Make sure all your kill switches are off. Set your meter to measure ohms on the lowest scale you have (like 2 or 20 ohms). Measure the resistance of the kill switch wire (black/white wire) to the ground wire (green). What resistance do you measure?
No change all zeroes (prob due to the theoretical circuit being open)
And, repeat this measurement with a kill switch on. Use the left handlebar kill switch and/or the ignition switch in the off position. In fact do both. What rsistance do you measure with the left handlebar kill switchoff (ignition switch on), and what resistance do you measure with the ignition switch off (and the handlebar kill switch on)? When done with ignnition switch to OFF it shows 5 ohms and that then drops to zero, when done with ignition on position it shows 17 ohms.
C) Trigger Signal:
C1) Set your meter to measure resistance in ohms on the 2K ohm scale. Measure the resistance between the two wire wires that go to the trigger pickup coil. Unfortunately I only see a purple wire here, the other wire color is hidden under the "back" button plopped in by the forum software. I suspect it is blue white, or something like that. What resistance do your measure?
27 ohms.
C2) Set your meter to measure AC volts on the lowest scale possible. Measure the same wires as above. Make sure all your kill swiches are off. Crank the engine, and measure the AC volts between these two wires while cranking the engine with the starter motor. What do you measure? What scale did you use to do this?
No reading.
E) Ignition coil output:
E1) Set your meter to measure resistance in ohms on lowest ohm scale possible. Measure the resistance of the CDI Output wire (Black/yellow) in the harness to the ground wire (green). What resistance do you measure? What scale did you use on your meter? 2 ohms.
E2) Now (finally) plug your CDI back in. Set your meter to measure AC volts on the 20 volt AC scale. Turn all kill switches to the run (kill switches off) position. Crank the starter motor, and measure the AC voltage between the Igition output wire Black/Yellow and frame ground (or the negative battery terminal). To get at the Black/Yellow wire you may need to probe the wire with a sewing pin if you can't get through the connector itself. Do this by poking through the plastic insulation to get att the copper wire core. Caution: This wire (in normal operation) has some fairly substantial voltages on it. Keep your fingers out of the circuit.
Unable to perform last test as I had removed the flywheel to see the state of the coils etc so doubt if this test will work in the absence of the magneto. can try this test tomorrow or after the new coil arrives as the fty is sending one for USD 45.
A1) 12 v
B) Kill switch:
B1) Make sure all your kill switches are off. Set your meter to measure ohms on the lowest scale you have (like 2 or 20 ohms). Measure the resistance of the kill switch wire (black/white wire) to the ground wire (green). What resistance do you measure?
No change all zeroes (prob due to the theoretical circuit being open)
And, repeat this measurement with a kill switch on. Use the left handlebar kill switch and/or the ignition switch in the off position. In fact do both. What rsistance do you measure with the left handlebar kill switchoff (ignition switch on), and what resistance do you measure with the ignition switch off (and the handlebar kill switch on)? When done with ignnition switch to OFF it shows 5 ohms and that then drops to zero, when done with ignition on position it shows 17 ohms.
C) Trigger Signal:
C1) Set your meter to measure resistance in ohms on the 2K ohm scale. Measure the resistance between the two wire wires that go to the trigger pickup coil. Unfortunately I only see a purple wire here, the other wire color is hidden under the "back" button plopped in by the forum software. I suspect it is blue white, or something like that. What resistance do your measure?
27 ohms.
C2) Set your meter to measure AC volts on the lowest scale possible. Measure the same wires as above. Make sure all your kill swiches are off. Crank the engine, and measure the AC volts between these two wires while cranking the engine with the starter motor. What do you measure? What scale did you use to do this?
No reading.
E) Ignition coil output:
E1) Set your meter to measure resistance in ohms on lowest ohm scale possible. Measure the resistance of the CDI Output wire (Black/yellow) in the harness to the ground wire (green). What resistance do you measure? What scale did you use on your meter? 2 ohms.
E2) Now (finally) plug your CDI back in. Set your meter to measure AC volts on the 20 volt AC scale. Turn all kill switches to the run (kill switches off) position. Crank the starter motor, and measure the AC voltage between the Igition output wire Black/Yellow and frame ground (or the negative battery terminal). To get at the Black/Yellow wire you may need to probe the wire with a sewing pin if you can't get through the connector itself. Do this by poking through the plastic insulation to get att the copper wire core. Caution: This wire (in normal operation) has some fairly substantial voltages on it. Keep your fingers out of the circuit.
Unable to perform last test as I had removed the flywheel to see the state of the coils etc so doubt if this test will work in the absence of the magneto. can try this test tomorrow or after the new coil arrives as the fty is sending one for USD 45.
#19
10-16-2012, 11:18 PM
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My new comments in Blue: My quoted comments in black. Your last comments to my quoted comments in Red.
A) Power:
A1) 12 v [Good]
B) Kill switch:
B1) Make sure all your kill switches are off. Set your meter to measure ohms on the lowest scale you have (like 2 or 20 ohms). Measure the resistance of the kill switch wire (black/white wire) to the ground wire (green). What resistance do you measure?
No change all zeroes (prob due to the theoretical circuit being open) ["circuit being open", and "all zeroes" don't match up. They couldn't be more opposite in fact. Zero ohms is a short circuit - not open. Open is infinite ohms - often displayed with the letters "ol" (for open loop) or a series of dashes in the display. I need to know which you are measuring, and also what ohms scale you were on. Both of these items are really important.]
And, repeat this measurement with a kill switch on. Use the left handlebar kill switch and/or the ignition switch in the off position. In fact do both. What rsistance do you measure with the left handlebar kill switchoff (ignition switch on), and what resistance do you measure with the ignition switch off (and the handlebar kill switch on)? When done with ignnition switch to OFF it shows 5 ohms and that then drops to zero, when done with ignition on position it shows 17 ohms. [This doesn't sound right at all. 5 ohms and 17 ohms are too high for a switch resistance. There's something funny here. Could you repeat this test and make sure you're still getting the same results?
What I'm trying to do is establish what your kill switch circuitry actually does when the kill switch(es) are "on", and what they do when "off". On the generic chinese quads, shorting the kill switch to ground will kill swpark and stop the engine. An open connection will allow spark. But you have a different CDI with no data to determine whether your CDI follows that convention. Not all quads do. For example, Eton quads require the kill switch pin to be shorted to ground to get spark, and open to kill spark. This is backwards fro the generic chinese quad. I have no idea on your unknown CDI yet...]
C) Trigger Signal:
C1) Set your meter to measure resistance in ohms on the 2K ohm scale. Measure the resistance between the two wire wires that go to the trigger pickup coil. Unfortunately I only see a purple wire here, the other wire color is hidden under the "back" button plopped in by the forum software. I suspect it is blue white, or something like that. What resistance do your measure?
27 ohms. [That is lower than I've seen elsewhere, but it is possible. I was bascially looking for opens or shorts to ground here.]
C2) Set your meter to measure AC volts on the lowest scale possible. Measure the same wires as above. Make sure all your kill swiches are off. Crank the engine, and measure the AC volts between these two wires while cranking the engine with the starter motor. What do you measure? What scale did you use to do this?
No reading. [What does that mean? There is no such thing as "no reading" unless your meter is turned off 
. What did your meter display? This is really important. So is the scale that your meter was set to - which you neglected to report. Another question: What brans and model number meter are you using? I want to look it up and follow along knowing what your meter spec's are...]
E) Ignition coil output:
E1) Set your meter to measure resistance in ohms on lowest ohm scale possible. Measure the resistance of the CDI Output wire (Black/yellow) in the harness to the ground wire (green). What resistance do you measure? What scale did you use on your meter? 2 ohms. [I can believe this.]
E2) Now (finally) plug your CDI back in. Set your meter to measure AC volts on the 20 volt AC scale. Turn all kill switches to the run (kill switches off) position. Crank the starter motor, and measure the AC voltage between the Igition output wire Black/Yellow and frame ground (or the negative battery terminal). To get at the Black/Yellow wire you may need to probe the wire with a sewing pin if you can't get through the connector itself. Do this by poking through the plastic insulation to get att the copper wire core. Caution: This wire (in normal operation) has some fairly substantial voltages on it. Keep your fingers out of the circuit.
Unable to perform last test as I had removed the flywheel to see the state of the coils etc so doubt if this test will work in the absence of the magneto. can try this test tomorrow or after the new coil arrives as the fty is sending one for USD 45. [OK]
A1) 12 v [Good]
B) Kill switch:
B1) Make sure all your kill switches are off. Set your meter to measure ohms on the lowest scale you have (like 2 or 20 ohms). Measure the resistance of the kill switch wire (black/white wire) to the ground wire (green). What resistance do you measure?
No change all zeroes (prob due to the theoretical circuit being open) ["circuit being open", and "all zeroes" don't match up. They couldn't be more opposite in fact. Zero ohms is a short circuit - not open. Open is infinite ohms - often displayed with the letters "ol" (for open loop) or a series of dashes in the display. I need to know which you are measuring, and also what ohms scale you were on. Both of these items are really important
.]And, repeat this measurement with a kill switch on. Use the left handlebar kill switch and/or the ignition switch in the off position. In fact do both. What rsistance do you measure with the left handlebar kill switchoff (ignition switch on), and what resistance do you measure with the ignition switch off (and the handlebar kill switch on)? When done with ignnition switch to OFF it shows 5 ohms and that then drops to zero, when done with ignition on position it shows 17 ohms. [This doesn't sound right at all. 5 ohms and 17 ohms are too high for a switch resistance. There's something funny here. Could you repeat this test and make sure you're still getting the same results?
What I'm trying to do is establish what your kill switch circuitry actually does when the kill switch(es) are "on", and what they do when "off". On the generic chinese quads, shorting the kill switch to ground will kill swpark and stop the engine. An open connection will allow spark. But you have a different CDI with no data to determine whether your CDI follows that convention. Not all quads do. For example, Eton quads require the kill switch pin to be shorted to ground to get spark, and open to kill spark. This is backwards fro the generic chinese quad. I have no idea on your unknown CDI yet...]
C) Trigger Signal:
C1) Set your meter to measure resistance in ohms on the 2K ohm scale. Measure the resistance between the two wire wires that go to the trigger pickup coil. Unfortunately I only see a purple wire here, the other wire color is hidden under the "back" button plopped in by the forum software. I suspect it is blue white, or something like that. What resistance do your measure?
27 ohms. [That is lower than I've seen elsewhere, but it is possible. I was bascially looking for opens or shorts to ground here.]
C2) Set your meter to measure AC volts on the lowest scale possible. Measure the same wires as above. Make sure all your kill swiches are off. Crank the engine, and measure the AC volts between these two wires while cranking the engine with the starter motor. What do you measure? What scale did you use to do this?
No reading. [What does that mean
? There is no such thing as "no reading" unless your meter is turned off . What did your meter display? This is really important. So is the scale that your meter was set to - which you neglected to report. Another question: What brans and model number meter are you using? I want to look it up and follow along knowing what your meter spec's are...]E) Ignition coil output:
E1) Set your meter to measure resistance in ohms on lowest ohm scale possible. Measure the resistance of the CDI Output wire (Black/yellow) in the harness to the ground wire (green). What resistance do you measure? What scale did you use on your meter? 2 ohms. [I can believe this.]
E2) Now (finally) plug your CDI back in. Set your meter to measure AC volts on the 20 volt AC scale. Turn all kill switches to the run (kill switches off) position. Crank the starter motor, and measure the AC voltage between the Igition output wire Black/Yellow and frame ground (or the negative battery terminal). To get at the Black/Yellow wire you may need to probe the wire with a sewing pin if you can't get through the connector itself. Do this by poking through the plastic insulation to get att the copper wire core. Caution: This wire (in normal operation) has some fairly substantial voltages on it. Keep your fingers out of the circuit.
Unable to perform last test as I had removed the flywheel to see the state of the coils etc so doubt if this test will work in the absence of the magneto. can try this test tomorrow or after the new coil arrives as the fty is sending one for USD 45. [OK]
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10-17-2012, 06:40 AM
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Many thanks for your patience and inputs.
KILL Switch update.
With the CDI connector removed, I inserted the multimeter cables into the black white and one in the green earth part. Multimeter was set at a range of 3 ohms and then 30 ohms with the same result as its a digital meter.
A) With Ignition off.
i) with KILL SWITCH OFF the meter shows 'OL'.
ii) With Kill switch On it shows 0.5 OHMS.
B) With Ignition turned ON.
The results are exactly the same for off . OL and with ignition on marginally higher at 0.6 ohms
For the results on the Trigger sensor and the magneto I will probably have to wait till the weekend as part is supposedly left today.
I have also located a few good reliable suppliers of parts for these bikes at v reasonable prices for other forum members. Most of them do communicate well in English. Will post them later.
My pain will be someone else's gain.
KILL Switch update.
With the CDI connector removed, I inserted the multimeter cables into the black white and one in the green earth part. Multimeter was set at a range of 3 ohms and then 30 ohms with the same result as its a digital meter.
A) With Ignition off.
i) with KILL SWITCH OFF the meter shows 'OL'.
ii) With Kill switch On it shows 0.5 OHMS.
B) With Ignition turned ON.
The results are exactly the same for off . OL and with ignition on marginally higher at 0.6 ohms
For the results on the Trigger sensor and the magneto I will probably have to wait till the weekend as part is supposedly left today.
I have also located a few good reliable suppliers of parts for these bikes at v reasonable prices for other forum members. Most of them do communicate well in English. Will post them later.
My pain will be someone else's gain.