At no point did I state that American manufacturers were incapable of making bad products. American companies generally behave the same way all companies behave: They react to economic circumstance. Put a company under enough financial pressure, and everything is negotiable.

Mercury and Johnson/Evinrude (OMC) outboards were the premium outboard motor brands for half a century. In the 1990s, OMC made a bad technical blunder with 2 stroke, direct fuel injection technology. It was such an expensive mess that it literally killed the company. Again, wind the clock back 30 years prior. Tell an American boater in the 1960s that someday, he'd dramatically prefer a Yamaha to a Johnson outboard, and he laughs at you and says you're dellusional, that no such thing can happen because the Japanese don't know how to make high quality outboard motors and the quality is inherent to the American outboard motor business.

I will say this about Japan's manufacturing business: In many categories, they used their domestic market, protected by law from foreign competition, to refine their early products. We were actually saved from their very worst wares. The Japanese consumer came to love American products that did make it to that marketplace because they were, at the time, far superior to what the Japanese companies marketed at home.

 

I think the problem we have is we're comparing American/Japanese products.

Chinese industry has been around for quite a while, but it's products seem to have the same reputation for being low quality. And they don't seem to be worried about that.

There are plenty of people here on the forums that have purchased Chinese quads, and said they were good enough for their kids to learn on. As far as anyone here saying they'd buy a Chinese quad to race a GNCC series, I have yet to see that.

 

core point right there

Chinese have been around long enough to make (prove) their quality standards... and they have yet to do so- and they won't.

 

My own experiences, not with ATVs, but in other categories of merchandise, directly contradict your statement.

I recall many personal experiences over the last couple of decades where a Chinese made product came with missing parts, too-soft hardware that stripped out very easily, and designs that were barely adequate for assembly, much less useful work.

But in recent years, I've had experiences with Chinese products where, after assembling and using them, I've thought to myself, and expressed to others, "How are we going to compete with this level of quality at this price point?" Perfectly useful stuff, well designed, decently manufactured, widely distributed, at a price that would be impossible to meet using domestic production.

Not every product. Some products. I participate in a variety of hobbies, and regularly swap product impressions with people in those hobbies. The trends I have experience personally suggest that Chinese quality is improving in many arenas, and I get that feedback from my peers in those other hobbies.

Again, I am new to ATVs. Maybe there is something unique about ATVs and the culture surrounding them that I don't yet perceive that will allow this market to defy the forces I see in other markets.

But you guys haven't convinced me. Yet.

 

Well, as far as atv's go, it would be pretty easy. Go for a ride with a group for a weekend. Take only the items they take, ride the same style and areas they ride. Then do that 4 or 5 times.

 

and it's still that way- from every knock-off power tool to any child’s toy- they are cheaply made- and I can't count the amount of recalls from chinese manufacturers still using lead in their product (because it's cheap) instead of 5 ring planetary gears you get 3 ring- instead of milled or forged metal housings, you get white metal cast housings, instead of high quality steel, you get low quality steel with impurities... thy skimp on everything from magnets to drywall (which is currently a huge law suit about the chinese drywall- google it)



likewise- but you'll digress in 30 years when it's the same'ol chinese crap
for someone stating history- you sure are missing a lot of it in regards to the chinese quality standards...

 

Don't you sell Chinese ATV's? Sounds like you are putting them down.

 

Nope. I shoot stuff for a living, on the good days.

 

I'm familiar with all of that, including the drywall situation in Florida.

Once again (for the umpteenth time), I am not arguing that overall Chinese manufacturing quality is currently up to Japanese or western standards. I am arguing they are on an upward trend, and it's quite noticably in some product categories. I am also arguing that the factors responsible for this are very difficult to avoid and will likely impact the ATV market over the long term.

I read, while researching Artic Cat for this discussion, that they will no longer use Suzuki for motors starting in 2014. Any indication of where the next motors will come from. I'm going to say China.

 

And Scooter never offered to cut me a deal????