greeting ac owners,and everyone else.well i installed highlifters updated lift with no problems,also installed dura blue spacers,then mounted the claws.all of you were right,WOW what a freakin diffrence.everything went smooth with installation of everything.then i had to reset the toe,which i knew i would have to do anyway.i set it 3 diffrent timesto make sure i was at least close when i took test ride.well i can report all is good,except the quad pulls to left.i cked air pressure.measured height rechecked installation of kit even took thing to shop and actually put on hunter c111 align machine and checked actual angles.machine had a problem with one of rear heads so i could only grab partial readings.it had some negative camber,[which it had before]the toe showed it was toed in with no weight onit. but it toed out with me on top.i could'nt get acurate caster reading,but i know it did'nt pull before so i doubt it's a caster problem,plus quad has never been wrecked.so i think what i have is still a toe problem.or maybe a tire problem,but i'm not sure.i was reading what boner had said to a guy with a toe problem.he was talking about bump steer,and about turning tie rods over to fix problem.but after confering with hunters technicain turning them over would change the toe but not the bumpsteer.since bump steer was a common angle change on a front suspension.excess bumpsteer would be caused from bent frame, steering arm or worn bushings of somesort.i was going to turn them over for the toe change.but decided against it.i've used the tape measure method and the string method with handlebars locked down with ties,still pulling to left any of you guys ever have this problem.i'm pulling my hair out on this one.

 

I would really worry about that lift if I where you, But I am not you. I am glad I took mine off. Just my 2 cents.
You might want to try the way Cowboy lifted his.

 

Well by fliping the tie rod ends, you change the angle of the tie rods(about as steep of angle as the a-arms).

How does Cowboy's lift kit put the front end in less of a bind than HL's?? With both of them you have the a-arms at about the same angle(cause I'm hearing the same ground clearance gains from both lift kits). The only thing is that cowboy saved alittle money, at the cost of some labor and a stiffer ride. So what makes his lift kit so much more reliable???

 

Boner,
If I remember right Cowboy said he didn't have to re-align his tires, if thats true there has to be a difference. I really don't understand why there would be a difference like you said. All I know when I put HL lift it threw my alignment way out.
How about it Cowboy did you have to re-align your front tires?

 

i tried flipping tie rod ends with no success,you can flip them,but if you ever unload the suspension like over the top of a hill or small jump the angle is to steep and will just about pull the tie rod ends apart.i still don't understand how cowboy's toe setting did not change because if you think about it his lift is achieving about the same thing as highlifters.its just he's changing his with a higher spring rate.i tried his method using 1/2"pieces of galvanized pipe,but for some reason i did not get the same lift that he did,at the footrests i only had 13", when with hl's i gained another 1 1/4"at the footrests.i also had a toe change of almost an 1" of toe in.also i've got arctic cat sending me the alignment procedures.from what they told me over the phone the way i'm checking is incorrect somewhat, they are measuring loaded and from steering shaft to spindle and are looking for about the same distance from left to right.i'll know the whole procedure once i get paperwork from ac.i will share with all once i recieve.as far as pull is concerned it's got to be toe problem,cause installing lift can not change caster angle,unless you bend something to move a arm foward or backwards.maybe cowboys lift does not change height as much as highlifters or at least it did'nt on mine.and i sure tried his method cause i like the work and saving money.ialso had about had better handling with hl's kit,but down here in sc it's all flat terrian,not like cowboys,where it's mountainous and hilly.sorry for such a long post.just trying to cover all bases here.thanks for replys.

 

Hey guys, first off-No, I didn't have to re-align anything with the tires. Well, actually I guess the very first thing would be to remember exactly why I put the spring spacers in- As most of you know, I carry a lot of weight up front, in excess of 100 lbs. at all times, which caused the front end to sag severly. By installing the spacers, I gained back that lost clearance from the sagging, and ended up with an additional 1.5" gain over my Dad's stock 'Cat. This is due to the spring being compressed more than when stock, thus giving it a "stiffened" effect, and the ability to hold the weight better. The added bonus was the ground clearance gains.

Now, as for the tires, like I said, no, I didn't have to re-align them. I'm not sure if this may have been from the sagging and the tires kicking outward more, then installing the spacers correcting it, or what, but the alignment is fine. It doesn't "pull" in either direction.

Now, for the bit about this "lift" being better than HL's-no, not at all. Hell, I don't know if you could really even technically call this a "lift" actually-I don't know. HL's kit is definately a true "lift kit", and should be one of the best, or at least top notch compared to the others such as Moose, etc. My "lift" was more or less to resolve a sagging front end issue, but ended up giving me the "lift" as an added bonus, I've been very happy with it myself.

The only thing I might venture to say as just a guess though, is that my type of "lift" might not be as severe on the joints as a true lift kit would be, as I don't believe it subjects the joints to such extreme angles. The reason is, with the spacer under the spring, housed in the shock assembly, it will only lift the machine to the shocks full extention point, no further. That kind of acts as a "safety stop" I guess you could say, in that the shock itself can't physically extend any further than it's maximum extention point, so lifting the machine any higher than that is physically not possible. The result is a less severe joint angle, when compared to the true "lift kit". The lift kit is able to gain more ground clearance by placing the lift itself underneath the entire spring/shock assembly, acting as a new "bolting" point for the lower shock mount-or possibly on top on the auto's from what I've heard??? Anyway, this design actually lifts the machine and shocks off the axle, or a-arms, subjecting the joints to a steeper angle. Mine isn't any better, it just doesn't allow for those steep angles to occur. You can tell the difference by looking strait on at a stock 'Cat, one with spring spacers like mine, and one with a true lift kit. The stock 'Cat will be naturally "stock" heigth, while the spring spacer will have a slightly steeper joint angle, though not much, and the true lift kit will be the steepest.

I hope that makes some sense? And lastly, I'd like to apologize for using the term "my" lift when referring to the spring spacer style of "lifting", or fixing the front end sag when carrying weight. The original idea came from the great "Trailboss". I had mentioned to him about wanting stiffer spring replacements, he suggested trying this idea, and it worked, I loved it. The real credit for this style goes to Trailboss, so a big "Thank You" to him, he's the man. I just felt that this idea helped me greatly to cure my original problem, and that others in the same situation might possibly benefit from it.

Anyway, sorry for the length, hope that clears things up a bit-clear as mud, right?.

Best of riding,

Mike

 

Most pulling conditions are the result of tire size difference. Because of irregularities in manufacturing any 2 given tires may be slightly different in circumference even when inflated to the same air pressure. My guess would be that this is the case. (As it is with my quad) You could try measuring the circumference of all of your tires, then adjust the air pressure accordingly to get equal measurements on all 4. Its a one time thing and you can write down what each tire should be at. I found that it makes a pretty noticable difference in rolling resistance when all 4 are the same size. This might seem too easy or too obvious but it is worth the effort even if it doesnt cure your particular problem.
Hey Cowboy thanks for the compliment!

 

Bump steer is caused by the A-arm & tie rods not being paralel, when their not, the front wheels go from toe-in to toe-out as the suspension cycles through its travel. By fliping the outer ball ends to the bottom of the steering arm the tie rod & A-arm are now almost paralel, & the bump steer is removed, I have verified this on two machine 2000-300 Cat & 1999 500 cat, in both cases machines hold there line thru bumps MUCH better. & yes we have topped many hills & left the ground without anything pulling apart!!!

 

Cowboy,

If you are getting the same amount of lift as the rest of us with the HL lift kit then the angle of the a-arms are the same. This is because even though the HL lift move the lower shock mount up, the spring still sags, yet yours does not sag.

What will happen is that the A-arms with the HL lift kit can drop farther down than your lift kit cause (like you said) the shocks only allow the a-arms to go so far down.

Basically the only time HL lift kit will put more stress on the cv's is when the tires are off the ground or have hardly and weigh up them at all. But when riding normally I don't think your lift kit as an advantage in the reliablility department if the ground clearance gains are the same.

 

Cowboy,

Have you EVER messed with the Tie-rods of either your dad's or your Cat??? If not, why not measure the toe-in on them and compare them??