I'll agree with you on the part about the 426 not increasing power that much with more mods, but you have to consider that it is over 200cc's smaller than the Raptor and putting out close to the same HP.

In an interview, the Yamaha rep stated that they considered the 426, but decided it had too much of a hit for a production quad. Instead, they went with the 660 because it had a broader power curve. This seems to indicate that the 660 is in a much milder state of tune. Yes, it can be a race engine, but at the same time can be tuned to be very conservative.

I have had a person who actually got a chance to ride the Raptor tell me that it is in a mild state of tune and that he looked forward to the aftermarket potential of the motor.

Also, what would be the reason that the Rotax 650 on the DS can be in a mild state of tune and still produce comparable hp figures to a state of the art 660 that is supposedly already modified to near its full potential?

Going one step further, the German motorcycle using a derivative of the yamy 660 is listed as having 50 hp (at the crank?). In the interview, the Yamaha rep said that there are only a few similar engine components between the two and
that the 660r quad motor has more hp than the german motorcycle.

 

It is going to be faster than all the competition if not then why bother to make it? Why would you make your flagship be slower than one of your own quads?

 

Wow, noone whining, i'm impressed, just intellegent comparison of what we know about the different machines.

 

747,

Nope, now whining here. I could be wrong, but my gut feeling is that even if it is just a tad slower, the DS650 is still built stronger than the Raptor. If it weren't because of its prohibitive width, I'd be a proud owner of one.

 

Bash you got the greatest sounding atv i've ever heard!!!

 

747,

Thanks! I love going riding with new people when I can. They just can't get over the sound of that 2-into-1 pipe. You'd think I'd have more luck trying to sell the extra one that I have.
I thought about putting the stock duals back on my banshee since I'm selling it, but figured that cool sound would hook any potential buyer who comes to look at it.

 

Well, speaking from experience, it takes more than a pipe, reeds, and carbs to outrun a DS in a drag race. I have raced 7 Banshee's, all at diffrent levels of mods, but, none that I know of with big bore kits, and all have jumped me about 20 to 30 ft., but after I stop spinning and start to hook up, I pass them before they get out of 3rd gear. I start in 2nd gear and we were racing on an asphalt road, the DS spins the tires through 3rd gear and then blows by the 'shee.
My DS is stock, although tomorrow I'm installing a 38 tooth rear sprocket. The guys I race can not believe that a 4-stroke gets it's rpm so quick, but with the bore being wider than the stroke is long, it revs almost as fast as a 2-stroke. They beat me off the line due to excessive wheel spin and more weight, but hp makes up for it after about 75'. Don't get me wrong, the 'shee is still one of the top bikes in performance and enjoyment, but you can't take the diffrence in price between a new 'shee and DS, modify the 'shee ,and outrun the DS in a all out drag.
Having owned a 'shee in the past, I like the lightweight feeling, but we also go to the mx track and have yet not been able to hang with one. The perfect bike is the one YOU like. ENJOY

'00 DS650
'95 Warrior
'87 YMF80

 

I don't think the Rapter is going to be super responsive to mods for a couple of reasons. First is the five valve head that the after market has had no luck in improving on the 426 motor. second is the fact that the 426 motor makes power with revs. A big 660 is not going to live to long with revs much over 9000. Sure we are going to see some improvement, but nothing radical. I have raced a few ds's with my 85 250r. I get the jump, but after 50 yards or so it is the ds. You have to get power to the ground. My wife's Banshee is making 45-50 ponies and a stock ds has no chance. A Banhsee is traction limited also. I have yet to run a modded ds. Perhaps you are a better rider than the Banshee's you have been racing.

 

That width you speak of as 'prohibitive' is one of the aspects I like best about the machine. I personally like a large 'footprint' which equates to a stable machine. wider is better for stability and a lower overall center of gravity. If that Raptor is truly 3" narrower than the 400ex.... there is no way in heck I would ever own one, I'd even give it a second thought before riding one. I personally look at a blaster and can't imagine riding something which to me at least, looks like it has a seriously high center of gravity.

I don't know where you ride, but here in the California desert, wide width is rarely a concern. Even riding around on the single track posted motorcycle only trails, I've rode with a guy who has a late model Banshee that has an extended rear axle plus wheel spacers, and he had no problem with the width. (I swear to me this thing looks like a cadilac or something it's so darn wide.) I don't believe I have ever truly seen any trail where a vehicle being 50" instead of 47" is going to make ANY difference.

Since you guys seem to key in on that fact, give me an example of how say 2"-3" less width is a benefit, I'm curious to see where you people are coming from.

 

Blackhawk,

I agree, wider does provide more stability, but you have to have room for the width if it is to be of use. I ride wooded trails with my Banshee (stock width). Most areas are wide enough that I have no problem flying down the straights of trails, but there are some tight areas that require coming to all but a halt. Many times, trees rub the outsides of my tires as I skinny between them. In this case, a few inches would mean the difference between continuing the ride and loading it back up and going home.

A girl that I work with is widely known to have about the fastest mx Banshee in the county, but with the extended axles and arms, she has to leave it at home and take her stock width Blaster if she wants to go trail riding in tight areas. Another example is a guy at work that has a MX 250R. He tried going with us one day and had to just poke along because his quad was wider than most of the trails.

When I spend $6,000-$8,000 on a quad, I want to be able to take it wherever the ride for that day is going and not have to worry about not making it. Also, I find using body english on a vehicle part of the fun of it, part of riding. If I just wanted to sit there and drive, I'd buy a golf cart and go hit 18 holes.

Also, if you are afraid to ride something as narrow as a Blaster, I take it you didn't do too much riding on 3-wheelers. That's what I'd consider unstable.

I hope you're not taking this as a slam to the DS. As I stated earlier, I'd love to have one, but am not willing to buy a new one and then have to turn around and buy reduced a-arms and axle just to get to ride it.