I can't believe what I see in here, there has not been a single Raptor released to the public yet and you all have the DS beating it. I do understand that the DS responds well to modification and that is a Plus, The 660 is exactly built to compete in the same class as the DS if not they would have went with the 426 engine. These machines should be very close in performance. My feelings about modification are this.. The 426 is made By yamaha in the highest state of tune (50hp) this is why there is an actual power loss of about 1 hp when changing exhaust, but if you go on to look at the aftermarket pipes they do lose 1 hp, but they enhance range of peak power by widening its usable range. The 660 like the DS is more than likely to be in a limited state of tune as evident of it having approx 48-50 hp. I have no problem in believing that it will be modifiable, but only actual release will tell. I feel that these will machines will basically respond similar to modifications, when they are available.

 

First of all I would like to state that it has been very refreshing reading all of these posts and seeing no bashing... or whatever

This is a great post and I can't wait till I get my Raptor..... two months away though. How many of you DS guys/gals went through the pre-order thing on your ds's? this is the first time... and so far its been interesting to say the least. I have had one dealership calling other dealerships liars about there alocation of quads and vise versa. heck all i want to know is the truth....

I feel like I found a good dealership ( at least one with a great reputation, and that took calling all over the state) They only had 4 deposits down... I am #5. So when/if any of you pre-ordered you ds's did they come in like you were told?

Another ?? for you ds guys/gals what kind of paddle set up are you running.... 9/10/12 paddle haulers? I used to run 10's on the couple of shee's I had.

And buy the way... nothing does beat the sound of the motofast 2-1 pipe.... "bumble bee on steriods" :P

Brad

Thanks again for any input, and for this great post

 

Wow Leech, where did you get your defective crystal ball? You seem to be more adept at research and development than Yamaha. Funny that 4 whl action gave the Raptor a 5-star test rating in almost every catagory...are you more qualified in evaluating the machine than them?? It seems to me that there are a lot of jealous ds owners out there that are trying to console themselves. Why don't we all wait and see how a shootout between the ds and the raptor comes out? You probably will be really surprised at the outcome. Oh yeah, suggest you don't get into the predicting business...you might starve.

 

Ladies and Gentleman....

Breath in deeply for a moment. While it would be very easy to give a biased opinion, the truth is we are going to have some excellent competition out on the trails when the raptor hits the dirt. My initial reaction to the power to size figures was that the raptor would be akin to an atlas rocket mounted on a shopping cart. The thing of it is, Yamaha is to big of a company and quite frankly too good of a company to blow this project. Simply stated, I love my DS; and I eagerly await the competition. Id like to think we have the advantage.

 

One thing no one has mentioned, and i find it quite humorous when people say the banshee is a 2 stroke, so its cheap and easy to modify. Hah! Its about the most expensive bike to modify. And it would cost alot to get a Banshee to beat a Stage 3 Ds650. Mine friend has a shee that he spent like 7 or 800 dollars on chrome toomey pipes, bout $150 on boyesen reeds and a few more hundred on a pro design cool head. Thats well over a 1,000 bucks and he just edges ahead of a stock DS in a drag.

Now i'm not saying a banshee sucks, but the DS responds just as well to mods, and its prolly alittle cheaper to modify, and also take into consideration, that a banshee that is making as much as a stage 3 DS (60hp) will not be very reliable at all, compared to a 4 stroke, which will be quite a bit more reliable.

 

Does anyone have torque figures on the DS? I was wondering how it compares to the torque of a Banshee. It wouldn't come as a shock if the DS might have just a bit more torque than the Raptor, but that is only a guess because of the extra intake valve and runner design.

Here's a trivia question for my fellow gearheads out there. Which hi-po quads have equal torque and horsepower at 5252 RPM?

 

get this i heard that a modified, little old 400ex will beat a ds650 ??????. well beleive it, they do.

426ex really fast

 

I am running 20x11x9 12 paddle Haulers and it seems to work fine.

 

It's called experience, common sense and logic, try it some time. I have been riding ATV's, ATC's (just about every model ever made by every manufacturer!), sand rails, Odysseys and motorcycles off road for over twenty years. So, I have an idea what I'm talking about.

Who are you to judge my qualifications? I have more riding experience than many of the writers of said magazines, I'm sure. Many of the readers and posters of this forum could probably do just as adequate a job as the people of the magazine. Remember, those people are journalists by profession, not riders. Some have racing experience and I'm sure most, if not all of them ride. But, you can't ride an ATV, motorcycle or quad for an hour or two and know everything about it.

I doubt I will be surprised about the shootout between the Raptor and the DS. The Raptor will probably beat the DS in a drag race. It will be interesting to see by how much and if this race is setup to similar races in the past (distance, conditions, terrain, etc.).

The magazines "seem" to rate the quads based on how much advertising is placed in and on their magazine. The Raptor has more full page color ads than anything out there. Hence, the good ratings and kind words about potentially hazardous designs.

Why are you harping on the DS, it received just as good of ratings? The same thing goes for the 400EX.

Just because it did so well in the magazine that doesn't mean it's the best of all worlds. Even in those reviews, they had to knock it down a few times, though in a politically correct way, so as not to **** off Yamaha, who is paying big bucks to advertise this wonder quad. Things like "exciting at high speeds and in turns" do not sound like something I would give five stars for in a category for handling. They basically said that it is unstable and potentially hazardous for in-experienced riders in the articles. Even the video from the Yamaha web site shows the quad bicycling in a turn. Bicycling is virtually impossible on the DS.

I'm sure that the Raptor will do exactly what Yamaha set out to do, beat a stock DS in a drag race. That's about it, unless you want to count fitting between trees as a category in of itself also, and measure the DS against that. Which, is a totally unrealistic comparison, since the DS was specifically designed for the Dunes and desert, the Raptor was designed to beat the DS in a drag race and be able to fit in tight trails. Yamaha is also trying to sell the Raptor as a do everything sport ATV, which is a mistake, because in order to do good at one thing, you need to compromise in another area. Unless they were able to make the width, wheelbase, and the power band adjustable, there will never be a do everything Sport ATV.

If the Raptor had a single carb, wider track, different airbox and different trailing arm construction (steel and aluminum welded together just doesn't cut it), then I would have to consider the Raptor, if I were to decide to dump the DS. So far, that isn't likely to happen. When the Cannondale comes out, I'll have to look at that one closely. Though, the Cannondale is still a totally new design itself, so I'm sure it's going to have it's own growing pains, just like the DS.

I have nothing to be jealous about, especially of a Yamaha. I have owned several Yamahas, and I have yet to find one dependable, even with very meticulous maintenance. The only reasons I'm not riding a 400EX, are comfort, ergonomics and the reports of component failures (spindles, trailing arms and frame) and the fact that I did test ride a DS before deciding on which one to purchase.

Besides, when the Raptor does come out, everyone will get one, just like the Banshee. About the only thing you see at the dunes are Banshees and 400EXs'. I like the styling of the DS better than the Banshee, Raptor and any of the other quads out there.

Laters,
CRT_Leech

 

According to www.quadstore.com/sys-tmpl/dynoruns/ Stock Banshee & DS650 torque is around:

DS650:
27 ft-lbs @3200 RPM
37 ft-lbs @5700 RPM
30 ft-lbs @7000 RPM
25 ft-lbs @7700 RPM

Banshee:
5 ft-lbs @3200 RPM
23 ft-lbs @5700 RPM
29 ft-lbs @7000 RPM
21 ft-lbs @7700 RPM
19 ft-lbs @9000 RPM