Off of the topic, but using this as a comparison, there was a similar issue with a tire and a vehicle a while back that some of you may have heard of. It was between Firestone tires and Ford motor company. The OEM tire for the ford explorer was failing, and at moderate to high speeds the vehicle was rolling and causing many injuries/deaths. After months of pointing the finger at Firestone, which is rightfully so because their tires were failing, Ford had it thrown back in their face. A comparison was done between the leading vehicle competition with ford using the same tires. The tires did fail, but the vehicles did not roll like the Explorers did. A weakness in the front drivetrain caused the vehicle to roll after tire failure. Whether that is a problem here or not I do not know, but things sometimes arent always what they seem. I am not sure what became of the lawsuit between the two companies, but all I know is if I am going to blow a tire on my quad at 50mph, I do not expect to have it on top of me a few seconds later. My .02 cents.

 

 

If it is the Jason Ennis that went to Lyon University I will contact him and ask what is up with this I know what department he is in. I still do no know how to take this as these post keep changing. I know that if the frame has been modified then BRP will should not consider the frame for testing as the test will be skewed. I also forwarded the entire original post in its original form to Bombardier engineering to see what is up with this.

 

well, even though you have not addressed even one of my questions, i can now see where your coming from. i too carry a few lice accomplishments with me. ( spelling is not one of them, lol) i too have had my own business for over 20 years, though i have not achieved the millions you might have by now, lol.
i see where your coming from, and see what your trying to do to accomplish this issue. i wont go as far as to state i agree with you 100%, but i understand more. i still stand on my belief that most people with your stated ability,s would have forseen such a thing, and either not have purchaced it, or at least been testing its ability before you did some ot the things you did on it, ( again from reading numerous posts, not from the breakage)
most will agree a few gussets here and there, along with stronger graded steel, or at least thicker steel will always benifit most areas of most atv,s. this is why polaris quads are so heavy, becouse they do add all the gussets, thicker steel, and heavier guage frames, so on... but, the new thing is to make it faster, lighter, and somehow stronger than ever before. this is the goal of all atv manufacters, other than polaris.
engineers can tell you how its possible to support an elephant from a cliff edge with the stem of a dandylion, lol. being a mettal man, fabber, i am sure you yourself have head that one.
the problem is, in its design, with its structure as is, your the only one to have this issue. i have spoken with numerous people who own them, and they have not had any problems.
would it help to add gussets, of corse. would it help to see the steel go from 90 to 150, heck ya. if the frame was boxed it in carbon fiber, or had an i beam put in it, would it be stronger, god yes. but, is it necessary for the safety of its owners, or is it an issue becouse of the issues you have had with it?
you come across as quite sivil, and even a passive person, with persistance to your credit, thats for sure.
so, i am sure you can see where we might wonder if all the talk of a bad frame, and supports, is not for what you consitter safe, and what actually is safe.
all in all though, if you can get them to make it even stronger, then we all win.

 

Now, now I never called you names!

 

This is my letter to Bombardier today. I will keep everyone posted on the outcome an response.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jason,

Here are pictures of my bike after the repair from the accident. Since then I have boxed that area in to make it a double wall and added a few gussets for strength
and some small straps to the side of the front and rear of the a-arm. List of problems parts.

1. A-arm material thickness and the fact that the ends are not boxed, along with the reinforcement brackets that were welded on are not giving enough structural support
to the front and rear of the A-arm leaving the ends of the bar that bend like butter and will also lead to the material slotting with any hard riders and that what this bike
will have on it since the engine is so powerful.

2. The mounts that hold the lower arm in place on the bike have no side support that is what led to my frame damage because a side support would have distributed the
impact more evenly across the frame, the design in place led to a very concentrated force that buckled the frame.

3. I work with a-arms on cars and the integrity and design on your part looks like a very cost prohibited unit like cars use that are only meant to drive on streets in a controlled
environment. The arms and mounts I refer to above do not have the correct support nor are they welded to the frame with enough contact points and gussets. I am really surprised
that BRP would let a bike like this out. The rear lower mounts for the A-arm need to have side support and what I have made for mine is a bracket to go across the top of the frame
and hook to both of the bolts on the back of the A-arms to minimize deflection and to give it double the support.

The fix for this was made with 2" longer bolts and a washer on each side of the bracket so it will not bind when the A-arms go through their range of motion. The system has
to be double nutted away from the nut that holds the A-arm bracket tight to avoid bind as well as the two spacers I added. I have ordered 4 thrust bearings and 4 thrust washers
to eliminate bind from my current setup that has not affected the ride since the repair.

4. The belt system has taken in water between the front and rear covers and I am unsure if the case is warped from the belt slip and heat that it generated during this. Also after
the bike had dried out the first time from leaking it has never been as responsive like before it slipped, I pulled off the side cover to see if the belt was damaged and it looked fine.
I don't know if the belt can get glazed or worn on the side and this will affect it also, either way the system is not right. I have already seen people that have put bigger tires on
them and also experienced slippage from the tires on dirt.

5. The suspension is way too soft and reacts very erratic in many conditions with excessive nose dive even when the shocks are fully adjusted for maximum stiffness the difference
is not noticable. I have noticed the large amount of weight on the front of the bike from the Big HP motor is very noticable and makes it shift th weight with the combination of these
things listed here in a very dangerous manner.

6. These bikes are going to see a lot of water, mud and hard riding and they are not up to the task when pushed. From all the advertisements that state:

> Designed from the ground up to be the ultimate ATV in the industry, with more power and torque than any other ATV. Not to mention best-in-class features
for the best ride ever. You're looking at the most powerful, most sought-after ATV out there.

This bike is no caddy it should handle better and be as tough as a Ford F-350 Truck not a Ford ranger. Yes it absolutely has the power of 2 Brute Force Kawasaki's
but my Brute Force has withstood many a bad mishap or just flat out hard play. Yes the Brute has broken tie rod ends and my wire harness has failed but I have not
been in fear from excessive light duty parts on it.

The 800 Outlander will be the best bike ever designed when these flaws are dealt with until then I am very unhappy with this bike. No I not looking for warranty or a refund
I just want it to be known that these gremlins are in it waiting to wreak havoc an BRP being such an Icon cannot afford this for the faith I have in you and all the fellow
enthusiasts.

I am eagerly awaiting your reply.

http://community.webshots.com/album/418299747NiBopB

Joe M.

Note the underlined word that popped up as a keyword for advertising for Polaris. Pretty damn Ironic isn't it !

Line me up with a Polaris after the Bomber is updated and you will be able to measure the Polaris's losing distance in lightyears. --- Polaris is O.K. thought , The Outty has twice the sack ***** !

 

ya know, its kind of funny. you just described my grizzly, along with every other atv i have owned, lmao!
i am beginning to think you beleave that this quad should be able to do more than any other atv out there. here is a reality check for ya on that. money. if they make more than they loose, they will not change a thing. grizzly,s frames cracked at the rear under certain hits. 400.00 c v joints broke like twigs in 03 on them. quads sputtered on inclines, throwing people from them, ( yes, it happened to me) tranny,s exploded on 01 raptors. ball joints are snapping on kowi,s as we speak. every atv out there has a flaw here or there. most( looking at 95%) will never experiance these issues, or even become aware of them.
you fight the good fight, but your chances of getting bomb to change the braking system, becouse you dont like it, add more gussets, becouse you feel it is needed, and there million dollar design dept. some how missed this, spend hundreds of thousands of dollars redesigning the frame to suet what you feel is exceptable, and lets not forget building a better suspencion that can be stiffened up more( not like its not consittered the best out there right now) all this becouse you feel the atv would be better for it? am i right on this?
now, here is the reality. bomb will do nothing to this atv in 06. they will sell like no other 4x4 has before this one, and people will stand in line to pay msrp for theres, while waiting. bomb will smile, and see if they can up the production on them. they will, if what you say can happen happens, start to add the money paid out against the money coming in. if this is a simple complaint from so far, one person, they will offer a fix for ya. if it happens to 25 of them, they will consitter a retrofit, in 6 months or so. if 2 people die, or get spinal cord inguries from this, and the law suits come rolling in, they will offer a recall on all sold to that point.
but, if i was bomb, and i recieved that letter, i would put it right where i am sure they did, in the round filing cabnet, next to the desk.
again, i wish ya the best of luck with this.

 

Daranello 75 from Toronto, nice toys, whats up with that t-rex-more info please

 

Yes, the T-rex it's amazing unfortunatly not street legal in Ontario yet (but legal in the U.S). Go to www.go-t-rex.com watch the video (first and last vid are the best), it will make you wet!!!!

here's some specs.

0-60mph 4.1 sec
top speed 140mph
lat g's: 1.9g
Sequential 6 speed gear box

Its the wildest thing you will ever drive!!!

 

Off topic beginning of thread. I'm glad I don't have the 'sac' that you guys do. Preferably, making you crash test dummies is fun. I'm glad you find those failures. I run my wheels hard. Sometimes ride wheelies, (I actually like to ride on 2 wheels on my ride) but I don't do anything to stupid. What I paid for mine I want it to be worth something in a couple years.

Whats his name is right about how B won't change anything till stuff starts breaking.

On topic

I watched your video. Actually, its kind of educational. It is kind of strange how thin they did make the metal. From the aspect of tensile strength, it would still seem inadequate. I was disappointed to find the whole bottom kinduh cheezy. No full length skid plating? Yeesh, come on. Heh, oh well. You might be a fabricator, and learned how to make some things by experience, but you probably don't know how the engineering world truly works. Here's how. They spend 40000 a year to learn how to make the 'Best Educated Guess' BEG for the layman. Not to say that sometimes they don't hit the nail on the head, or at the least come a whole lot closer to a fine product than a person beating on steel in a shop. They are good at what they do. But every idea needs to be tested. So, they HAVE to test the thing in the real world. Guess what, you were my gunea pig [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]. As I said, you have built through experience, and that saves you from making mistakes, but prevents you from innovating. There are uncountable reasons to justify a lightweight component. I pay a lot of attention to how subframe builders put together the suspension under tractor trailers. Heavier suspension components produce a lot of stress on wheel bearings, control arm components, wheels, tires, and steering components. Maybe they were worried about angular momentum.

As for B itself, someone else noted their commitment to customer satisfaction and safety. Whew, buddy (dreamworld). HAH, if you knew what I have been through with them. They leave those two things up to the dealers, trust me. If you wanna lie about how they sat down to coffee with you, I'll call you a liar because the company itself WILL NOT take your phone call on tech or just about any other reason. The success of the DS650 has purely been through its customers and enthusiasts (I.E. people that have already bled Bombardier). The success of their other products is directly related to the quality of your dealership. Read the personal and factory service manuals from Bombardier. They are exceptional with disclaimers. They are exceptional with providing you with a machine that comes straight from the factory with substandard components according to their own manuals. They are certainly exceptional with telling you how your ATV is not to be treated like an ATV.

The ATV market in general is a failure, with many manufacturers dropping support of their machines after only 6 months and the only support left is the dealers knowledge. WOW, thats pathetic. I remember how the Brits make fun of us because we drop a perfectly succesful design every year merely because of American vanity. Look at the Cooper.

Anyways. The design looks valid to me for a machine that is supposed to be replaced in 4 years. At its location you have a nice force triangle there. The only mount that looks quircky to me is the one that has absolutely no boss or gusset. Thanks for the video, although, I would have rather seen the offending 'rut' and trail next to the canal. You do have a nice thumbs down though, and should be one of those movie critics. It would seem you have a high interest in quality and subsequently safety (or vice versa?) and that at the least is commendable. Props to you in getting B to at least raise itself up off its cobweb incrusted ****.

Hopefully some type of fight will ensue. Can't wait to find out!