A ron wood cdi is not the cause. Your story matches at least 25-30 phone calls I have recieved with the same problem. You can not simply put a cometic head gasket on because the cylinder has an o-ring in it. The o-ring has to be removed and the groove filled with epoxy and then the top of the jug machined flat again. Then you can use the cometic.

The real reason for gasket failure is when the sleeve goes in it does not seat completely. Then the engine runs and heat cycles letting the sleeve "drop" a few thousandths and lose cylinder seal. Also the o-rings I have removed have been seated too deep to do much good anyway.

You need to check your oil passages also, and may have to split the cases and completely go through the bottom end checking everything because of the "magic" sealant and silicon that is used when putting those type of big bore kits together goes all through the critical parts of the engine. I have seen several engines with oil passages completely stopped up because too much goop was put on the head gasket trying to stop it from leaking.

 

I stand corrected on the cometic gasket, I forgot about the O-ring issue Im running HPR 730 Jug no problems! Tahnks for reminding me Eric, didnt mean to mis-inform.

 

Interesting. . .

Eric: If the O-rings are recessed too low they won't work as designed? Could you then use the MLS (Cometic) gasket???

My 105.5 jug has an O-ring and I've been running the MLS gasket on it for a couple years now. (Knockin' on wood!) Not sure how recessed the O-ring is. BTW, Gary told me the same thing.

Great info.

I'm guessing mine is probably recessed. . . guess I lucked out [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]

Great info. Again, Bomb thread has the best info by far.

 

TVI POWER & SPORTS____________________________________________ _________
34515 SW TUALATIN VALLEY HWY
P.O. BOX 3363 HILLSBORO, OR 97123
PHONE 503-648-1254 FAX 503-640-5858


This is a copy of the letter TVI wrote to the credit card company when Mr. Rhodes disputed his bill. The credit card company has since ruled in TVI’s favor and re-charged Mr. Rhodes account. This letter explains who was at fault.

Nework 1 Financial
Retrieval & Chargeback Dept.
Fax – 301-631-6717

CASE #XXXXXXXX; Cardholder #XXXXXXXX
Merchant Name: TVI Power and Sports
Transaction Date: 6/20/2005


The complaint filed by Cherie Rhodes stated that she felt that the repair work done on the charge slip in question should have been covered by the 30-day warranty policy. We will clarify what a warranty policy covers. When we warrant our work we are warranting our workmanship and parts integrity. We will explain below that there was nothing wrong with our workmanship or parts used. The customer was at fault for not being honest about work he performed or had performed on the ATV that he did not reveal to us when he brought his engine in. The change he had made to the CDI Box, and did not reveal to us, seriously changed the ignition timing on the ATV causing detonation (ping). The customer did not bring his entire ATV in for work; he removed the engine and brought it in making it impossible for us to check if any modifications had been performed. We relied on the customer’s word that no additional work had been performed.

When Jeremy brought his engine to us for repair, he was asked if he had installed anything other than what we originally installed on his ATV. He told us “no.” He didn’t tell us hey had changed the CDI box to a Ron Woods CDI. A Ron Woods CDI moves the advance plus 7 degrees throughout the advance curve and will cause pre-ignition. He was also instructed to use 110 octane fuel with the 13 ½ compression he ordered. This conversation was all witnessed by one of our technicians. I personally installed the TVI 720 big bore kit in this motor. When he called me on my home phone on a Sunday afternoon he called and said that he and his brother were at Sand Lake Recreation Area and both engines had pinging sounds when I asked if he had put 110 octane fuel in the ATV and he said “yes,” he purchased the fuel at the Sandlake Store. He proceeded to tell me that he went ahead and road the ATV even though it was pinging and had been racing the ATV. Jeremy was very upset when I told both he and his brother, Chester, to stop riding. They said they had waited too long to ride and were going to ride anyway. I asked them to bring in the complete bikes as soon as possible. Up to this point, I had only seen the engines.

Both, Jeremy and Chester (brothers) brought their ATVs in and I looked at them and saw they both had Ron Woods CDIs. When I asked about them, they told me well “you didn’t ask about that!” They were upset and continued to say we had ripped them off. I told them we would inspect the engines and call them. We removed the engines and drained and saved the fuel. Neither ATVs had 110 octane fuel in them. Federal regulations require that any fuel over 100 octane have dye in it. The fuel removed from the ATVs did not.

Between the CDI box, advancing timing, and incorrect fuel octane, there was no doubt that the engines were pinging and caused the piston rings and head gaskets to fail. I proved how the problems were created by how I corrected the problems created by the customer. Now that we corrected these issues on both brothers’ bikes, the ATVs run properly. The proof of pre-ignition (detonation) is that the top of the pistons and rings looked like salt and pepper. This cause was confirmed by Dale Maslen of Maslen Machine (Forest Grove, OR with 40 years experience in auto machine work) as well as Dan Baisley of Baisley High Performance in Portland, Oregon. We can furnish contact telephone numbers if you wish. The customer reported to you that she spoke with the owner of On Dune’s Performance.com and he said that TVI’s 720 Big Bore Kits are notorious for blowing head gaskets. We talked with Mark McAdams at On Dune today and he disputed what the customer reported to you. Mark said their comments were taken out of context. We also have photographs of the pistons, cylinder head gaskets and the fuel that came out of Mr. Rhodes ATV as evidence of these issues. I can be contacted at 503-648-1254.

To further explain – the customer requested the new MSD ignition system. He was told the cost was $450 and that is part of the bill currently being disputed.

Thank you for the opportunity to clarify this situation. The customer created the engine problems and we only charged to correct the damage he created.

Gary Tiffany
TVI Power and Sports
503-648-1254

 

I guess that goes to show ALL of us that there is always 2 sides to every story [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img]Gary Tiffany did NOT!!!!!!!!!! ask me about the cdi box. Gary did not make it clear that regular fuel was the death of the motor. What we have to understand here is that when all this started i was not much of bike guru, i did not understand how cdi,s and race fuel all worked together, so not being told how important this was i ran super. When we got our bikes to the dunes we did not say we were going to keep riding anyway. We did speak to ON DUNES at COMP HILL & he said if we went on this forum that we would find others who have had this problem, and this to be TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Bigboo:

Sorry to hear about your issues. Mistakes can be expensive.

I'm sorry to tell you that running Super Unleaded isn't good enough on a 12:1 compression motor, much less anything more.

If you continue to have gasket issues and you run race gas that's one thing but, the fact of the matter is you ran 92 and your head gasket blew.

Run the bike with race gas now that she's fixed and let us know how she does after a few trips.

Unfortunately it sounds like an expensive lesson.

Additionally, most aftermarket builders don't offer any kind of warranty on their builds. There is too much that goes into it.

I do think people should be warned before they invest $$ into a built bike that if you don't know what you are doing, you should make a new friend out of someone that does.

Good luck with your new build and keep us informed on how it runs.

 

BigBoo, like you I am not very good with the mechanical stuff. And I would love to side with you here, but I can't. I have to agree with Duneme that part of the issue was a lack of homework on your part. You have to do your research, and learn what can go bad if you oops. Sorry it went that way. Personally I have only talked to Gary once, and was greeted by a person willing to answer my stupid questions. HPR and On-Dunes both the same thing. Have not talked with KMS yet..... Good Luck with everything.

 

Have any of you guys tryed using "copper-coat" on your head gaskets???? I am a diesel mechanic by trade and we use it on EVERY head gasket.....for the past 6 years I have used it on all the head gaskets I install; including the copper crush gaskets. Copper-coat has a glue mixed with powdered copper. It holds up to the 18:1 diesels, it may do you some good on the race engines you guys are running. Just a thought!

 

We use it on our tractors too......and I use it(sparingly)....on my quad too.



Sounds like there was a little more to this story......I've had problems like this too. When I rebuilt my pred, I had my dealer do the polishing work(700 dollars worth).....and when I put it back together.....I guess I didn't have sufficent knowledge on how the cam tensioner worked, and I ended up tightening the cam chain way too tight. The cams didn't end up turning, and they gouged into the cam lobes......ruining the $1200 head(+$700 work into it).....and $300 worth of cams..........I was a little upset that I wasn't told exactly how to put the tensioner back in.....but then realized it was my own fault for not asking.......I take blame for my own actions/mistakes.



One thing to remember, if you are going to spend all of your money on these huge motor mods.......take your time and research who is doing your work, and what the work you are getting will do for you. And how certain mods will work for or against each other. And, if you are riding it for the first time, and something doesn't seem right......stop and figure it out, or you'll have a big mess. People make mistakes, and they can usually be caught, if you are paying attention to detail. These motors are like building blocks, if you mod your quad right.......certain mods help other mods.....and the first one to the top wins.....