Hey all need some thoughts on this i am in search of a carb but find some good and bad things about them all. The tm45 has the stiff throttle pull and the lectron has the throttle stick issue but is supposed to put out better power...the efi is the most expensive but prob the easiest to push on the throttle....how do all of these compare power wise would the efi be on top with the lectron? Another thing is can all of these bolt on to the stock boots and use the airbox still?
(This is on a machine with my mods)

 

My guess on power is that it would be right in line with the cost of each, higher cost higher power, but not proportional to cost. The EFI I guess (I have zero proof or evidence, just opinion) would be at least as powerful and perhaps just a bit more than the lectron, and even if it was on par and not ahead it has its other advantages. The Lectron is what I own and I love it, just awesome. I've never been fond of the TM, but it costs less and runs great for the price, hard to go wrong. I am pretty sure they can all be run with the stock air box, but the Lectron and TM probably have to be de-tuned a bit from maximum potential. (The EFI would likely de-tune itself.) Do you NEED the airbox, or...?

 

you want a theoretical answer??

Theoretically a perfectly tuned 46mm carb would produce the exact same peak hp and tq as a perfectly tuned 46mm fuel injection. That said, in the real world a good working injection system will generally show a some gain but for much longer in the power band, due to the fact that a PERFECTLY tuned carb is a pipe dream. The idea of a perfectly carb is nice but not usually the case especially for our needs. Trying to get a carb perfect from idle to peak, with one needle, one main jet and one pilot jet, etc. etc. in rough conditions and in varying elevations..... stop. Obviously elevation is a biggy and one of the reasons why the Lectron is such a strong player for some. Elevation isn't too much of an issue for the carb, and it seems to do well with it's power jets and needles. No jets to speak of and lots of power once properly tuned. The TM is an awsome carb, but thumb pull is a problem, and the TM has some difficulty staying tuned over time. The Lectron can exhibit a stuck shut problem if you don't know what you are doing. I also have found that the bigger cam you go the less of an issue it is. STock cams pull so much vaccum at idle, that the slide pulls against the body. Many had a stuck shut problem due to cable routing. Once these things are in line, life is beautiful. I often take riders on a 2 - 4 hour desert/river ride. In fact, just went on one this weekend. My carb was spot on.... not one stall, not one stuck shut, not one stuck open... NOTHING, just pure power. So the Lectron WILL work, and is a true performer.

I've heard good things about KMS's injection but I'm not sure what stage the system is in. Will the KMS injection offer that much more than my Lectron for twice the cost? Maybe, but I'm not sure that all the bugs are worked out yet. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong... but I'm not sure that the SMART part of the injection has been refined yet. I hope someone can chime in and tell me otherwise, becuase injection on a DS is LONG over due. I know that some have had it for a while with some success, but I didn't think it was a real plug and play system yet. Mapping seemed to be an issue with some people and having the computer adjust the mapping on it's own, was somewhat of an issue. We definitely need an update on the system to give it a good review. We'll also need to dyno that system against identical ds's equipped with Lectrons and TM's. That may or may not ever happen.

I've got no problem doing all three, but not everyone has that ability or time. I've had both carbs and have settled for my HV48. I know that there are some things on the burner right now, and all this may come to a head soon. Some good guys are about to get deep into exactly what we are talking about. Until then, ride hard and ride smart.

BD

 

Big Daddy, you have stated the conclusions that I have come up with based on the research I have been doing. I would love to save up and just do the EFI for the DS, but until more of the bugs are worked out it is hard to swallow. My dad loves the TM45, but not my cup of tea. I have ridden Scatterbrains ride with the HPR Big Bore and the Lectron 48. Good hard pull, and ot too bad on your thumb, and really smooth accross the RPM. I have not had the opertunity to ride a bike with the EFI, but would gladly try if given the oppertunity (hint hint out there [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] ). I would really like to hear from somebody who has the EFI, and let us know where the bugs are. I have not seen any speak up for some time.

 

Ask Sandaholic about the EFI, Hes the only one I now running it on a non-turbo. He might have some dyno#s by now. Im looking real hard at the EFI to run methanol. I have the lectron 48 and I really like it. The suck shut problem is an issue and so is the cable routeing. Once you get it there great.

 

I thought you might throw down your .02 [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Alright, now we just need Sandaholic to throw in his, and we can really get some thoughts rolling here. For the cost of the new Lectron 48 I would really like to go with the EFI........

 

I have been running the KMS efi on my 730 for sometime now. Been really happy with it. Performance wise I can't comment on because I did too many mods at once to say the increase in performance was due to the efi. I would have to agree that a properly tuned carb will be very close to the efi. The issue is when the carb encounters environment variables, thats when the EFI shines on.

My current ECU is supposedly tune on the fly and self learn. So the computer makes the MAPs. It works for me and I haven't messed with it since it works! I must say that there are more parts to fail on an EFI system. There are more electronics, fuel pump, more hoses, injector to clog, etc.

With that said, if you went shopping for a car or truck today all you will find is EFI. I hope the ATV world follows.

 

How much did you have to do to get to the point where it has been working right on for you? Has KMS got to the point where they are close to or at that point out of the box? If they system is working, I would say it is worth the money. I know my carb one day at the dunes could be lugging a bit, and they next be right on just because the sun came out...

 

Hey Scott, What are you running for fuel? I know the EFI has trouble with race gas burning out the O2 sensor. I know that Donal is having alot of problems with his turbo with the mapping. So maybe it works better on non-turbo bikes. If I go methanol it would sure be nice not to have to constantley tune the carb. I also hear that the injection system will also control the nitrous but you cant run the Boondocker on it. Evidentally it will richen it up on the button keeping your O2 where it should be. Cost wise its pretty spendy but if it works like it should it would be a dream on Methanol

 

Sandaholic and Scatterbrain, that's exactly the imput we need and I completely agree with both of you. Hope that the system has come around and is working top notch. WE NEED TO BE IN THE EFI WORLD. I truely believe that all of the sport quads will have efi sooner or later. It has too many benifits to ignore.