Originally posted by: 222


May this be the beginning of greater things....
Randall

(this isn't a joke where somebody stole their passwords is it?)

Originally posted by: yjacket2001
Sandman,

I went ahead and investigated since wanted to understand better for myself and others. On Ebay, Lisa (Big Bore ad) said there was little room in the cylinder for 105mm (105 thick AL sleeve granted, but not sure about 105 boring like Scooby) and this is a durable option that should support most users requirements. I called JE and talked to John Noonan (google john noonan racing) and he said the same thing, but both were selling JE steel sleeves. They are not specific DS650 experts though, so we will find out from Scooby, an unbiased DS650 high hp expert.

However John Noonan is land speed record for 2 wheel vehicle on big 475hp 1350cc Suzuki (253mph avg), so he had a wealth of information, has designed pistons for 14 years, and knows every type speed enhancer/charger.
John said just $160 JE piston 11.5:1 (also on Ebay) would be excellent for most people, and I may just do that for an inter-period or final solution (Hightower installed a JE piston like this before). John also said custom pistons ($700/4) were $175 each which could do most everything within alloted Custom JE options (without minor fees). John also states he uses Millennium cylinders. Both Ebay vendors and JE sound like an excellent deal.

Millennium works with CP Pistons, which is also a good piston as well, but I will have to be convinced of their advantage over the JE Pistons when discussing a big bore package. After talking with John, I may not bother with the big bore kit (not even the 700cc or 102mm). If I had a charger, he said just juice it up a half psi boost and it would do fine. In fact, for most all applications, he said just the 11.5:1CR JE piston alone would be excellent for cost/benefit for most users (11.5:1 CR max for pump gas).


So known options to date are:
(CP pistons are not listed but should be about same price if can get for Rotax DS650, like Ron Woods)

1. JE piston kit 11.5:1 CR (alone) Ebay $160 - Stock AL wall- 650cc or 720cc. (pump gas)
1a. JE Custom CR/configured Piston (4 required) $175/ea- Stock AL wall- any size cc. (custom)
(CP pistons only require 1 custom piston but don't know price - i.e. included in Millennium Big Bore package - 2a below)

1b. JE piston Standard HPR kit 12:1 CR(alone) $250 - Stock AL wall- 650cc . (Not pump gas)
1c. JE piston Super HRP kit 14:1CR (alone) $400-$415 - Stock AL wall- 650cc or 730cc. (Not pump gas)

2. JE Big Bore Kit (on Ebay) about $550 with machine work - JE steel insert- 720cc. (11.5:1CR pump gas)
2a. Millennium Big Bore kit $465 - bored AL cylinder, nikasil liner - 700cc - Stock AL wall(custom)
2b. Millennium Cylinder Bore customized to your supplied piston $215 - bored AL cylinder, nikasil liner - 700cc. (custom)
(option 2a or 2b, if install AL insert into previous 720 big bore cylinder, add $200).

3. Pami Big Bore (TheBom) about $1800 - AL cylinder insert, nikasil liner - 725cc (known AL re-sleevable by Pami and ERBE) (Assume custom CR)
3a. HPR Big Bore $1900, ODP - AL Casting, (Millennium) nikasil liner - 730cc (Mr. HP just informed me in ALL CAPS that his 730 Big Bores were not condusive to work well with the same diameter AL sleeves, assumed to be due to closer cylinder wall mold tolerances). (13:1 CR Not pump gas, of 12:1 CR Not pump gas with double thick gaskets, or 11:1 CR pump gas with triple thick gaskets)


Current Ongoing Research:

A. Scooby Used Millenium to bore a stock cylinder to 720cc (AL OEM walls nikasiled lined), so we will see how it holds up to a high hp turbo with max 19:1 CR equivalent. Currently all test reports have been excellent - $215 - 720cc. (custom)


So here is a good wide range of excellent alternatives to make everyone happy :-)