720 Aluminum Bore Build Costing
#151
01-01-2008, 09:37 AM
720 Aluminum Bore Build Costing
Seeing as how the stock spec bolts are at their max elasticity limit with stock jugs power, any performance additions would indicate racing duty studs would be required. Else you would have to put coils around the base of the studs so they would not pull AL up, and then they would would deform the studs too much. But I can see what you are concerned about. Me thinks ERBE mentioned the studs and the cometic multi layered gasket in the same breath, since its the combination of these products that makes it possible. The gasket may compress before the engine components deform.
TheBom is not only a seemingly consistent Bomb racer over the years from his record, but he is the main performance Bomb vendor around now. His site indicates he custom builds atv's to the customers wishes. And it would be hard for me to accept he would sell products to distort people's engines. As well, ERBE and SANDMAN look like the only ones with their big bores riding that is posting. I can see pics of their perfect bikes, and don't hear any sob stories from them either.
TheBom might could clear this matter up. The big bore product, vendor, and riders that are still standing says otherwise, but you have made a valid argument and have me confused once again! Dang it.
TheBom is not only a seemingly consistent Bomb racer over the years from his record, but he is the main performance Bomb vendor around now. His site indicates he custom builds atv's to the customers wishes. And it would be hard for me to accept he would sell products to distort people's engines. As well, ERBE and SANDMAN look like the only ones with their big bores riding that is posting. I can see pics of their perfect bikes, and don't hear any sob stories from them either.
TheBom might could clear this matter up. The big bore product, vendor, and riders that are still standing says otherwise, but you have made a valid argument and have me confused once again! Dang it.
#152
01-01-2008, 09:41 AM
916 Reaper - Pure Evil Inside!
#153
01-01-2008, 11:01 AM
720 Aluminum Bore Build Costing
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: goobds650
Seeing as how the stock spec bolts are at their max elasticity limit with stock jugs power, any performance additions would indicate racing duty studs would be required. Else you would have to put coils around the base of the studs so they would not pull AL up, and then they would would deform the studs too much. But I can see what you are concerned about. Me thinks ERBE mentioned the studs and the cometic multi layered gasket in the same breath, since its the combination of these products that makes it possible. The gasket may compress before the engine components deform.
TheBom is not only a seemingly consistent Bomb racer over the years from his record, but he is the main performance Bomb vendor around now. His site indicates he custom builds atv's to the customers wishes. And it would be hard for me to accept he would sell products to distort people's engines. As well, ERBE and SANDMAN look like the only ones with their big bores riding that is posting. I can see pics of their perfect bikes, and don't hear any sob stories from them either.
TheBom might could clear this matter up. The big bore product, vendor, and riders that are still standing says otherwise, but you have made a valid argument and have me confused once again! Dang it.</end quote></div>
I called TheBom after I stretched a stock head stud putting a ported head and piston on my DS. TheBom told me to use the new stock head studs torqued to 40Lbs, less than the spec of 44 Lbs listed in my manual. From what he told me the early DS650 had studs that were too soft, and the torque specs listed in the manual were wrong.
So I went from a stock piston at 9.6 to 1 to a 13 to 1 piston, ported head, trail cams and lower stud torque with no issues. Much more cylinder pressure than stock.
Seeing as how the stock spec bolts are at their max elasticity limit with stock jugs power, any performance additions would indicate racing duty studs would be required. Else you would have to put coils around the base of the studs so they would not pull AL up, and then they would would deform the studs too much. But I can see what you are concerned about. Me thinks ERBE mentioned the studs and the cometic multi layered gasket in the same breath, since its the combination of these products that makes it possible. The gasket may compress before the engine components deform.
TheBom is not only a seemingly consistent Bomb racer over the years from his record, but he is the main performance Bomb vendor around now. His site indicates he custom builds atv's to the customers wishes. And it would be hard for me to accept he would sell products to distort people's engines. As well, ERBE and SANDMAN look like the only ones with their big bores riding that is posting. I can see pics of their perfect bikes, and don't hear any sob stories from them either.
TheBom might could clear this matter up. The big bore product, vendor, and riders that are still standing says otherwise, but you have made a valid argument and have me confused once again! Dang it.</end quote></div>
I called TheBom after I stretched a stock head stud putting a ported head and piston on my DS. TheBom told me to use the new stock head studs torqued to 40Lbs, less than the spec of 44 Lbs listed in my manual. From what he told me the early DS650 had studs that were too soft, and the torque specs listed in the manual were wrong.
So I went from a stock piston at 9.6 to 1 to a 13 to 1 piston, ported head, trail cams and lower stud torque with no issues. Much more cylinder pressure than stock.
#154
01-01-2008, 02:03 PM
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,739
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
720 Aluminum Bore Build Costing
I always changed the head studs out on any Big Bore build, its cheap money investment, heck even on my 2 strokes I change out to HD studes on my LT500 and and the 4 Trax J.I.C.
The way i look at it, if your having a big bore done by a builder go with what they tell you, every builder has there way of building a motor.
The way i look at it, if your having a big bore done by a builder go with what they tell you, every builder has there way of building a motor.
#155
01-01-2008, 03:09 PM
720 Aluminum Bore Build Costing
[q
This is an alternate user name trying to stir the pot. In his first post he called ERBEDS650 "Erbe" like he was a long lost buddy.
Could Yjacket be back? [img][/img] I know choosetolose uses a bunch of different user names. So does the big show........hmmmmm Which one are you? [img][/img]</end quote></div>
WTF???? i havent made a responce in almost a year. do u smoke the reefer to much nut? paranoid mind is running wild...haha
This is an alternate user name trying to stir the pot. In his first post he called ERBEDS650 "Erbe" like he was a long lost buddy.
Could Yjacket be back? [img][/img] I know choosetolose uses a bunch of different user names. So does the big show........hmmmmm Which one are you? [img][/img]</end quote></div>
WTF???? i havent made a responce in almost a year. do u smoke the reefer to much nut? paranoid mind is running wild...haha
#156
01-01-2008, 06:27 PM
720 Aluminum Bore Build Costing
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: TheStir
I called TheBom after I stretched a stock head stud putting a ported head and piston on my DS. TheBom told me to use the new stock head studs torqued to 40Lbs, less than the spec of 44 Lbs listed in my manual. From what he told me the early DS650 had studs that were too soft, and the torque specs listed in the manual were wrong.
So I went from a stock piston at 9.6 to 1 to a 13 to 1 piston, ported head, trail cams and lower stud torque with no issues. Much more cylinder pressure than stock.</end quote></div>
I forgot about the Made-in-Mexico Bomb Manual torque specs. It probably don't matter which you use if correct torque specs. Even if 11% bigger piston, it may make no difference. The vendor of the product you are using would be the final word in my book.
Those 725 or 720 kits may have different dimensions than stock or 730 big bore kits. requring different fasteners. It was the similar stud hardware that made me wonder if the 725 and 720 big bore kits were from the same cylinder vendor to begin with. No one but TheBom and TVI may ever know the truth about that.
I called TheBom after I stretched a stock head stud putting a ported head and piston on my DS. TheBom told me to use the new stock head studs torqued to 40Lbs, less than the spec of 44 Lbs listed in my manual. From what he told me the early DS650 had studs that were too soft, and the torque specs listed in the manual were wrong.
So I went from a stock piston at 9.6 to 1 to a 13 to 1 piston, ported head, trail cams and lower stud torque with no issues. Much more cylinder pressure than stock.</end quote></div>
I forgot about the Made-in-Mexico Bomb Manual torque specs. It probably don't matter which you use if correct torque specs. Even if 11% bigger piston, it may make no difference. The vendor of the product you are using would be the final word in my book.
Those 725 or 720 kits may have different dimensions than stock or 730 big bore kits. requring different fasteners. It was the similar stud hardware that made me wonder if the 725 and 720 big bore kits were from the same cylinder vendor to begin with. No one but TheBom and TVI may ever know the truth about that.
#157
01-01-2008, 09:46 PM
720 Aluminum Bore Build Costing
LOL! Hey Rocky! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] It doesn't take a paranoid mind to be suspicious of you, my friend. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] lol
It is funny but Goob's ramblings remind me of Yjacket. The only reservation I have about that is i don't think Yjacket would have the self control to avoid attacking me. lol
Heavier duty studs are unnecessary. Even Eric's 855 on a 30 shot at about 125 hp is still using OEm studs without headgasket issues and he is torquing to 36 lbs.
The heavier studs will simply require 40 to 45 lbs of torque to have the same clamping force as the OEM studs at 36 lbs. Either way should be fine.....it is just a waste of money.
It is funny but Goob's ramblings remind me of Yjacket. The only reservation I have about that is i don't think Yjacket would have the self control to avoid attacking me. lol
Heavier duty studs are unnecessary. Even Eric's 855 on a 30 shot at about 125 hp is still using OEm studs without headgasket issues and he is torquing to 36 lbs.
The heavier studs will simply require 40 to 45 lbs of torque to have the same clamping force as the OEM studs at 36 lbs. Either way should be fine.....it is just a waste of money.
#158
01-01-2008, 10:14 PM
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,739
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
720 Aluminum Bore Build Costing
Nut, you must be bored, trying to mess with this 720 thread again, Bottom line my 720 runs great, only change was a more agressive cam that increased some cost os 200 bucks overall.
So far to date 2 trips to Pismo, and 6 trips o Glamis, with 3 more trips planned.
Im sure Eric's kit is works, but that wagon has left on this build.
my thoughts are this even if you build a up a DS your ging to use all that I did for a big bore or not, to increase 70 cc for me was 425 dollars and I like the grunt and the power band this motor puts out, I love seeing the faces of any one under 225 lbs riding this quad, they cant believe the torque and the power, its a true sand sled!!
Remember as I wrote over and over before, this was a play dunner for me, my need for speed on the sand hills is on my LT500
So far to date 2 trips to Pismo, and 6 trips o Glamis, with 3 more trips planned.
Im sure Eric's kit is works, but that wagon has left on this build.
my thoughts are this even if you build a up a DS your ging to use all that I did for a big bore or not, to increase 70 cc for me was 425 dollars and I like the grunt and the power band this motor puts out, I love seeing the faces of any one under 225 lbs riding this quad, they cant believe the torque and the power, its a true sand sled!!
Remember as I wrote over and over before, this was a play dunner for me, my need for speed on the sand hills is on my LT500
#159
01-01-2008, 10:59 PM
720 Aluminum Bore Build Costing
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: ERBEDS650
Nut, you must be bored, trying to mess with this 720 thread again, Bottom line my 720 runs great, only change was a more agressive cam that increased some cost os 200 bucks overall.
So far to date 2 trips to Pismo, and 6 trips o Glamis, with 3 more trips planned.
Im sure Eric's kit is works, but that wagon has left on this build.
my thoughts are this even if you build a up a DS your ging to use all that I did for a big bore or not, to increase 70 cc for me was 425 dollars and I like the grunt and the power band this motor puts out, I love seeing the faces of any one under 225 lbs riding this quad, they cant believe the torque and the power, its a true sand sled!!
Remember as I wrote over and over before, this was a play dunner for me, my need for speed on the sand hills is on my LT500</end quote></div>
Explain to me how i am messing with your thread? i am giving you some info on head studs. I haven't said one thing about your motor since this thread was resurrected. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]
Nut, you must be bored, trying to mess with this 720 thread again, Bottom line my 720 runs great, only change was a more agressive cam that increased some cost os 200 bucks overall.
So far to date 2 trips to Pismo, and 6 trips o Glamis, with 3 more trips planned.
Im sure Eric's kit is works, but that wagon has left on this build.
my thoughts are this even if you build a up a DS your ging to use all that I did for a big bore or not, to increase 70 cc for me was 425 dollars and I like the grunt and the power band this motor puts out, I love seeing the faces of any one under 225 lbs riding this quad, they cant believe the torque and the power, its a true sand sled!!
Remember as I wrote over and over before, this was a play dunner for me, my need for speed on the sand hills is on my LT500</end quote></div>
Explain to me how i am messing with your thread? i am giving you some info on head studs. I haven't said one thing about your motor since this thread was resurrected. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]
#160
01-02-2008, 11:44 AM
720 Aluminum Bore Build Costing
well i finally figured out that i was blocked and had to do some email corrections, so this thread has been kind of interesting. the head -block bolts are a interesting thought. i'm not sure but if i was to guess they started with pami. which probably has the most time on the rotax in the ds650, then woods and i never recall seeing any upgrades on there site. I do know the first piston and cams i put in i thought i could reuse the nuts that everyone said not to. well when i hit 42 ft. pounds it stripped, so there seems to be a point of failure that is pretty close there.