hey fourlix are you gettin that raptor from bandit99?

 

Cant wait to read that review. Im just afraid it will give me the jonesen to have a winter project.

 

Fourlix, it sounds like an intresting project, but keep a couple of points in mind as you do it.

1] Don't copy the Raptor front end if your building this for performance. You will want to angle the nose up slightly, similar to the 250R or even the DS. This will allow the front tires to move backward slightly as they travel up. A proven design that Yamaha decided to ignore[probobly due to production costs]. It started on Volkswagons, but has been used for race buggies for many years and works well on the almighty 250R. The lighter the vehicle, the more important it is.

2]IRS has problems working in performance aplications due to the relationship between the unsprung weight of the suspension and tires and the width of the vehicle. I've talked with several people who atempted this, and each one of them stated that the vehicle wanted to "rock" side to side. They all stated that this was a problem, but they each thought it could be worked out somehow. I believe it can also, and I hope your the person that works it out, I just wanted to give you what little heads up on the project that I've heard. Good Luck

Maybe if it really works well, we can put one of my motors in it and go desert racing.

 

I agree that there needs to be more rake in the Raptors A-arms and would include that. I think there is a lot of good info out there especially in the Stadium Ultralight world. Even the technology quads have developed for the front A-arms and shocks can be adapted to the rear. I don't hear anybody wanting a solid FRONT axle on their race quad? It may take very light sway bars front AND rear, or some marvelous combination of shocks, tires, wheels, sway bars etc. Since there have only ever been a couple of one-off IRS specials, nobody has had a chance to get it right yet. That's not saying it can't be done, that's just saying it hasn't been done, yet.
I am going to build a permanent jig for this, on a nice big piece of 14" I beam, about 5'long. Cannabolizing bits and tabs off of the wreck will be handy, but I am going to build this so I can build more frames if I want to. And I'll be able to modify it as it goes along. The jig will just get better, and so will the frames.
I would think this would make a fabulous stadium MX frame, as it will easily out-jump (land) solid axle quads. Working out the rear diff so it can be chain driven without a jack shaft to inset or just line up the drive sprocket with the rear diff is going to be a sticky spot.
I want to avoid the additional weight of a jack shaft, (unless it is used for a Hi/Lo/reverse for a Desert Cruiser?) In this case the chain drive Raptor or DS with 5-speed could chain drive a small gearbox that did a shaft drive to the rear, and included Hi/Lo/reverse. That gearbox could be had off the shelf, Polaris 2x4 Magnum. The DS and Raptor drive on opposite sides, what works for one might not work for the other.
A more competitive MXer or Baja Racer would need to be a straight chain drive, less weight, more efficient. But once I get the frame figured out it could be adapted for several engines and uses. This is sounding more fun all the time! Turning out a few custom frames a year could be some nice change. It's the first one that's hard to build. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/img]

 

I completly agree, I think it can be done right, and I hope you do it. One thing confuses me though, what makes you think that an IRS quad would easily out jump a solid axle? I think it's best advantage would be in ground clearance and ability to follow terrain on desert racers. I've been toying with the idea of a 3 link/trailing arm swing arm for MX use. This, used in combination with a front sway bar, could be a really hot ticket for MX. I think that due to the complexity of an IRS, you would have a really hard time making it as light as stock. That is not to say that it can't be done, but it would not be easy. You would also have to ensure that the drive train can hold up to the increased power output of a race motor.

Fourlix, I think when you come up here in October, we could have a hell of a brainstorming session. Between your brain, my brain, and the brain of the owner of my fabrication shop, we could come up with some increadably creative ideas.

 

Damn, All i can say is that i would have a lot more confidence in a quad company if Knutz and Fourlix worked for them. They sound like they wanna make what the people really want. Maybe you guess should work for cdale.

 

Nice to see this thread going again....I never scored that wrecked Raptor, so I never got going on anything. Now I'm going to put a Blaster front end on a new Raptor 80 for my youngest. This is a nice little project putting real suspension on a mini that has possibly the worst stock suspension in an otherwise good package. The electric start, auto-clutch 3-speed will do very nicely once it is widened, lowered and has 7" travel in front and as yet I do not know what I can do with the rear. I know not much other than changing the shock because it has a drive shaft, but a reasonable swing arm length, unlike many of the minis with swing arms under a foot long. Rambling on here...
......I don't know when I'll make it to Vegas, and Cedar City, to meet up with Knutz and 3TV. It could be the start of a BEEEEAAAUUUTIFUL friendship.
..... Oh yeah, Mark LoScerbo at HSD racing has got the IRS thing figured out pretty good, certainly a good starting point.
......And I'm sure an IRS quad would land jumps better than a solid axle quad can. Lower unsprung weight, ability to land on one wheel better, consistant chain tension, shock/spring is almost directly over the wheel
instead of 2 feet away on the swingarm.
.....Given that the angle of the dangle on a swingarm is suited pretty well for landing jumps, I wonder if a 3 link/trailing arm set up like Knutz is talking wouldn't be better than A-arms? I'm thinking like a Porsche or BMW kind of setup, still independent, but a linkage more designed for big landings. A design like this might be easier to retro fit to existing frames as well, sort of a split swingarm with a subframe to carry the differential. Food for thought.... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/img]